Fri 23 Apr 2010
TRAINING THE LOWER BACK
Posted by John Little under Uncategorized
In our forthcoming book (The Body By Science Question & Answer Book), Dr. McGuff and I devote a significant section to training and rehabilitating the lower back. As the lower back can prove problematic to some (by some estimates, between 75 and 85% of the population will experience lower back pain at some point in their lives), keeping it strong is very important and can go a long way toward keeping you in the 15 to 25% that do not experience such problems).
Dr. McGuff has put together a two-part video that will help trainees immensely in strengthening this important area of the body. In Part One, Dr. McGuff describes the anatomy of the lower back and what muscle groups we need to focus on with our training. In Part Two, he continues with his presentation, demonstrating three exercises that can be performed to strengthen the lower back for those who do not have access to MedX or Nautilus lower back machines.
Here is the link to Part One: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyyVGgouJvY
Here is the link to Part Two: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSIiPmSBdro
Dennis,
Thanks again for your insights. Your experience is unparalleled. When you refer to my purchase of the MedX lumbar, were you referring specifically to the medical machine, or would this include the EXL.
Because I am a physician I must be very cautious to keep my exercise business and medical business very distinct and separate for liability reasons. Liability for a non-physician providing lumbar rehab is very different from a physician providing the same service. Should I offer medical/rehabilitative services with the lumbar machine, I would need to “medicalize” UE, incorporate the costs of medical malpractice and revamp corporate structure. Despite all these obstacles, I would like to hear what you have to say.
Thanks,
Doug McGuff
To all :
What do YOU usually eat and/or drink when you´ve finished your workout ?
@ Christoph, I’m not a MedX rep nor trying to sell anything - just a very experienced practitioner that understands business & finance, and I appreciate the trepidation that a business owner may experience when considering a major purchase.
The quote comes from a physician acquaintance of no particular fame familiar with the research. Sir Alexander Fleming re-discovered the antibacterial properties of penicillin mold in 1928 (after a French medical student noticed it in 1896), but it wasn’t until the 1940’s that Flory & Chain isolated the active ingredient and developed it into a powdery form. Fleming won the Nobel Prize in 1945 for his work - with mold. I’m would venture a guess that those unfamiliar with biology ridiculed the discovery - until they got a staph infection. So, no, I don’t think it far-fetched to believe that treatment on a piece of “exercise equipment” that is a proven solution to over 70% of cases of chronic back pain is worthy of that level of recognition.
With all due respect, of course.
@Doug, I appreciate your concerns. I was just speaking to the acquisition from a financing and revenue standpoint. The business and liability structure is something that would best be discussed with an attorney experienced in the field. As a physiologist, I cannot independently administer medical treatment nor rehabilitation, nor be reimbursed through insurance. But as an exercise facility, the MLEX is just another exercise in the routine. It just happens to provide a “functional restoration” benefit. As long as it is referred to as “exercise”, and not as “treatment” or “rehab”, done on your current cash basis, it should be fine. But certainly check it out with your attorney. I’d be happy to discuss ideas with you.
As for the MLEX vs. EXL - IMO there is no comparison. Maybe I’ve been spoiled.
Dennis Beckman
Fair enough, Dennis.
You’re not trying to sell anything including the provision of financing: It’s nice of you to offer your financing and business services for free without receiving a profit on any deal.
While I think earning a profit itself is a good thing, that’s really decent of you to want to help people in this ares so much so that direct monetary reward isn’t one of your considerations for serving Dr. McGuff and his clients and/or patients.
I don’t consider it all unreasonable that a person could win a noble prize for designing a piece of exercise equipment if it reduced lower back pain, itself widespread due to being a recently evolved bipedal species. I’d consider it quite warranted.
It was merely hearing an extravagant testimonial without attribution that tickled my funnybone.
As I remarked on, and Doug McGuff recognizes far better than I, you know yourself physically. It is hardly impossible that I could be one of the people helped by such knowledge.
Carry on.
With respect.
Ugh… typo city.
The worst of them was, “You know yourself physically.”
I wasn’t implying anything Biblical!
I meant, “You know your stuff physically.” I.e., the underlying science.
Anyway, Dennis, I feel I misjudged what was simply an attempt from an experienced businessman to offer another businessman advice.
I apologize for that.
Hi Doug and John,
If you don’t mind could I let people know that on Tuesday night in Australia a current affairs TV program on SBS channel called INSIGHT - No Pain No Gain the show centered on Personal Trainers in Australia. As many on this website could imagine what most of the personal trainers do to their clients. If you can’t access the show they have posted comment most comments are extremely negative. Doug and John I think that it might be a good time to promote BBS in Australia.
Thanks
To: Steven Turner
I received the following e-mail from another gentleman in Australia. Perhaps you might want to contact him?
Ed Garbe
Looking forward to watching & applying the workout DVD. My address is unit 1 25 rockley road, south yarra (Melbourne) 3141
Do you guys know of anyone I can connect with who are doing this kind of Training in Australia?
Take care,
Warrick
+61 417767243
Steven…I’m sorry, his name is Warrick Vaughan
Dr. McGuff,
You mentioned that you work the lumbar very infrequently. How do you fit the lumbar workout in with your regular workouts? Do you just add it or sub for something?
Thanks,
David
David,
I will usually add or sub it in my litte 6 workout. When I sub,it usually replaces the abdominal.
Doug McGuff
Following a couple of slushy snowy rainy days in Montreal Dot and Norm ventured out on Wednesday April 28th to a different gym for us where we started all over at fine-tuning our resistances. We intend to stick with the “Big 5” or “Big 3” as we are not experienced in more advanced techniques being espoused in Doug’s blog. Nor do we have the coaching or equipment to go there.
Norm’s Big 5
Lat Pull Downs 90 lbs 2.00 mins.
Overhead Shoulder Presses 50 lbs 1 min 20 secs
Seated Row 90 lbs 1 min 20 secs
Flies 50 lbs 1 min 20 secs
Floor pushups 4
Leg Presses 270 lbs 1 min 40 secs
Dot’s Big 3
Seated Row 40 lbs 2.00 mins
Flies 10 lbs 1min 30 secs
Leg Presses 80 lbs 2 mins 30 secs
Hi Ed,
I will give Warick my mobile phone number 0417850084 if Warick doesn’t mind could he please contact me. Or if there is anyone else out their from Australia who train BBS/HIT I would be most happy to have a chat.
If Doug and John don’t mind could I mention that for those interested BBS/HIT in Australia I have now registered my business as High Intensity Training Australia (HITA).
Could I also mention that I would personally like to thank Doug, John, Drew Baye, Greg Anderson and Chris Lutz for inspiring me to set up HITA.
Thanks
Steven,
Go get ‘em!!!
Greg
Hi Greg,
Thanks for the encouragement we have some big things planned with HIT I have just been quietly planning and putting implementation strategies into place, still a little way to go.
Teaching fitness courses puts me into contact with a lot of people in the fitness industry sometimes it pleasantly surprises me that at least a few people are not fooled by the commercial gym industry hype and bullshit.
One person that I should have mentioned as a great inspiration the person who started it all Arthur Jones.
Steven,
Copied your comments to Warrick in an e-mail…hope you guys can get together
Ed Garbe
Hi Ed,
Thanks
Steven
John Little,
When employing Max Pyramid do you always stop the set when the trainee reaches the weight he started with, or do you ever push beyond that to create even further inroad? If not, would there be any benefit to doing so that you can see?
Cody
my wow MP machine dips
Codu,
I’m sure John will answer at some point, but in the mean time (if you don’t mind), I can offer my 3 cents worth.
If your client gets back to his/her starting weight then they should have had enough - assuming, however, they were properly fatigued throughout the set. I have found that a good solid 9-10 intervals (sets) lasting a TUL of 4-6 minutes is what one should be striving for using MP. This insures that the weight that is started with and ending with are light enough to control and when approaching those last couple of final sets, even the start weight should be a challenge. I have also found that the last set is THE set that most people can actually get the full 20 seconds on.
Another consideration I made mention of earlier on another post, don’t be in a rush to up the weight on the top set. Improvement isn’t always obtained going heavier or even longer through the set as after hitting those top sets a trainee can improve their hold times on the way down further inroading the body but prohibiting long hold times on the last couple of sets.
Fred
Fred,
Thank you very much for your insights. I certainly appreciate any knowledge I can get from people who are qualified to give it, and from reading through these posts, I have come to regard you as just as much of an authority on high-intensity training as any other.
Cody
Posting my WOW- I think this is #5.
1) negative chin (6 reps @125lbs)
2) Chest press: 84lbs (:55) second time 72 (:60)
3) Leg press 100lbs (i stopped counting as I was well over 3 minutes-went to almost fatigue but got bored :/ )
4) Shoulder press 48lbs
5) Row 45+bar, second time 30+bar
My ipod crapped out on me so I was not able to keep time on most machines. However I did show 12 pound improvement in chest press and a 10 pound and TUL improvement on legs. Was able to do the negative chins much easier this time around.
The best thing is that I reached my goal of being able to do a complete “guy” push up for the first time in my adult life today. Its a big accomplishment for me (was hardly able to do ‘girl’ pushups before) so I am pretty sure I am getting stronger.
Really going to push myself next week
@John M-
I work out at 9:30 so I don’t eat anything afterwards. I eat mainly low carb though, a lot of meat and eggs and veggies (around 30g carbs a day)….with about 1-2 cheat days a month
Amy’s workout:
chin up
Max Pyramid on Nautilus leverage bench press
Nautilus overhead press
Nautilus hip extension
Hammer leg press
chin up
My work out:
Nautilus 2ST lower back
Nautilus hip extension
Max P on leverage bench press
chin up
Hi Cody,
As a rule of thumb I stop the set when the trainee can achieve 20-seconds again on the way back up the stack. As Fred has indicated, often this coincides with the starting weight that one employed (so whichever comes first). I also would keep the same starting weight for a while as I prefer the first set to be “non-threatening” to the body as it serves to prevent setting off a lot of trip wires (many of them psychological but a lot of them physiological as well) that can prevent you from hunkering down and giving 100%. I find that if the process comes upon you a little more gradually you are better able to endure and soldier on in the process — rather than having it come upon altogether at once. If you find that, using the same starting resistance, you are able to sustain 20-seconds on what was previously your peak weight, then add another plate and perform another set — until you can no longer sustain the contraction for 20-seconds. And then return back up the stack.
If you can perform 20-seconds on the way back up the stack, then I don’t know that you are accomplishing any additional inroad at that point (or even if a deeper inroad would be necessary), but feel free to experiment and let us know your results.
Hope this helps,
John
Thans for the kind words, Cody.
John - I’m finding more slow-twitch predominant trainees are real close to the 20 second mark if not doing 20 on their way back down. It’s interesting because I based on their performance, I wouldn’t push them pasttheir top weight because they would not be able to sustain close to 20 seconds but the ride down they hit 20 often. I ask them if the set(s) are easy on the way down (they are not) so I keep taking down the ladder.
Conversely, fast-twitch trainees seem to barely get 10-12 seconds on all subsequent sets - myself included.
Carne,
Congrats on your “guy pushup”. It’s good to be strong.
Doug McGuff
John,
All advice I get from you absolutely serves to better cement these ideas in my mind. Im currently working with the Max Contraction workouts, as presented in BBS, but at some point in the future I’m sure I will experiment with this new protocol. Thank you.
Cody
May 2, 2010
1. Overhead Press: 302 lbs / 1:35
2. Chin-Up: BW + 22 lbs / 1:07
3. Leg Press: 964 lbs / 1:41
4. 10° Chest (NAUT): 170 lbs / 1:11
5. Lumbar Ext.: 244 lbs / 1:20
Duration: about 13 minutes
I played a bit around with machine settings today, so that may have influenced the TULs a bit. I use the MedX Multi-Exercise for weighed chin-ups, but the strength curve the built-in weight stack gives me feels somehow backwards. Since the gym I go to does not offer free weights, does anyone know how to make the strength curve of the MedX ME work? Or do I just need more time to adapt to that specific piece of equipment?
Dear All,
Did my first MP-style workout today. Pulldown and leg press. Misjudged the weight on pulldown (too little) so end up doing over 6 minutes in TUL (stopped the watch as my wife changes the weights so it almost all of it under tension), and could do a 20 sec hold in the first step back. I will probably increase the starting weight (which was %50 of my regular BBS-style weight) next time. It was nice..pretty good conditioning. Leg press was harder…started with %40 of my regular weight…did 4 sets up and only achieved 20sec in my starting weight on the way down. Still getting used to the position and I need to work on more keeping the weight stable.
Also I still need to get used to the idea that I need to contract against the weight…I am sure that will increase the intensity.
Wrapped up the session with a BBS-style overhead press…same weight as my last workout but shaved off few secs in TUL..so I am thinking may be I did not give all I have in the pulldown…will try all three in MP-style next week and keep you guys posted.
To John and Fred,
Thanks for taking time to respond to questions so quickly..I sure learn a lot from the ongoing discussions.
I am planning to alternate between BBS-style workouts (Big 3) with MP-style and will report back with the results.
Glad to be of help.
I havent been posting here lately, but I have been reading. Got to test out the first lower back exercise demoed in the video yesterday… very pleased. Can’t wait to give it another shot in a few weeks.
In other news, I weight a clean 184 pounds, down from 196 just a month ago. My strength has for the most part remained the same, but has not increased during that time span. Not surprising considering the rapid weight loss.
Have a few WOWs to post, which I will upon the next classic Doug style WOW post.
I also have my complete medical records from my knee injury back in high school. I can’t make heads or tails of them, but will post a bullet point summary of the 10+ pages of notes from the doctor and look forward to comments on my injury, although obviously, none of it will be considered formal medical advice =).
Ah! I should mention, I had my first TV interview the other night in Orlando - and yes, I had a chance to mention you Doug. You can see it on my blog, or at the youtube link
youtube.com/watch?v=G-zDLFKKFVY
MCT cycle, everything went up this week in both weight and TUL’s after a 3 week rest period! My workout was about 6 mins and I finished my whole routine before a couple of people around me finished their rest between sets haha!