Mon 28 Dec 2009
W.O.W. 12/27/09 (and the old 80/20 issue)
Posted by Doug McGuff under Uncategorized
I did my little 6 workout around noon on Sunday. I forgot that I was into a new workout log, so I did not have my prior workouts for measuring benchmarks. I selected my resistance based on memory and made my focus using the most demanding form possible. This made for a very demanding workout, even for a little 6. With attention totally focused on perfect form rather than progression, TUL’s were shortened due to a more rapid rate of fatigue. I think I will continue this blinded approach for a while.
There has been some discussion of HIT and BBS on the excellent blog of Dr. Kurt Harris (www.paleonu.com). Dr. Harris was very conservative with regard to his exercise knowledge and advice citing the old adage that half of what we know is wrong…we just don’t know which half. This adage is even more true for exercise, because the human body is an adaptive organism and will make adaptations to almost any kind of exercise stressor. If we make the adaptation the measure of our success, then almost anything appears to work. This being the case, I think it is very important that we make these adaptations without damaging or destroying the organism in the process. This is why BBS has a greater emphasis on safety than many other exercise philosophies.
Another thing that I think exercise should do is augment changes that can be brought about by a proper diet that avoids Neolithic food agents. In the same blog post, Dr. Harris endorsed the concept that 80% of health and longevity is accounted for by diet, and that health benefits can be achieved with Paleolithic dietary modifications, even if someone is sedentary. I agree to some extent with this 80/20 notion (although the percentage is really just a gestalt assessment). However, exercise can slide this percentage (80%?) up or down depending on whether it is properly done or not. If you are doing a proper HIT workout, you will be aggressively emptying the largest sugar reservoir in your body and restoring insulin sensitivity. As your muscles grow larger and more metabolically capable, the size of your glucose reservoir will increase-which means you will tip into the metabolic syndrome later in the game. Proper recovery will insure that you do not produce excessive oxidative damage and systemic inflammation. These facts can diminish the necessary contribution of diet down to (for arguments sake) 60%, allowing a little more latitude for behavioral slips in our environment of constant temptation from Neolithic foods. My involvement with HIT is probably why I came out of the low fat 90’s and Entemen’s fat-free cookies with a coronary calcium score of zero.
Improper exercise can have an opposite effect. If you are doing large volumes of steady state exercise, you are rarely tapping your fast twitch muscle fibers, which will stimulate an adaptation that interprets them as “dead weight” and results in atrophy of these motor units. This results in a reduction in size of your largest sugar reservoir, which means tipping into the metabolic syndrome sooner. Combine this with an increase in oxidative damage and systemic inflammation you will now have a scenario where a proper diet becomes even more critical to good health. You will have less latitude for behavior with the temptations of the standard American diet. Instead of carrying an 80% weighting of importance, your diet may now approach a 95% level of importance. I’m not just picking on steady state exercise here. HIT done improperly (too little recovery, too much volume, and especially to many intensity extenders) can be even worse.
In conclusion, I support the idea that diet has a dominant position in health and longevity issues, but do not mistake that the type of exercise you choose is unimportant. The type of exercise you select can be very synergistic or detrimental to the contributions of a proper diet.
My WOW:
Calf Raise- I am using the entire MedX stack, I progressed the resistance by gapping out 1 hole. This really made it heavier and shifted the strength curve to load up at the mid-point.
MedX Abdominal- dropped the weight back to 70lbs, did 1 and 1/3 reps at SS cadence-ouch!
Plateloader Bicep
Tricep Pushdown
Thick Bar Wrist Flexion
Thick Bar Wrist Extension
Post Your WOW’s (and your thoughts).

Very cool post Doug, and very well said, as always.
Great post and analysis. What you said makes perfect sense. It astounds me how much we have wrong with the mainstream advice. Hig carb. low fat, low intensity/high volume training. You can see the results in any gym you go to. Tons(pun intended) of under muscled, over fat people on cardio equipment. Very good debunking of those theories. “Dead weight” is much easier to understand than “gene expression”. Gives me further fuel for when I choose to debate these things, thanks.
I tried to lead my mother in law away from cardio and toward BBS, but she doesn’t get it. Bought some aerobics videos when I was down there last weekend. I have also tried to tell her that she can’t exercise away the bread either. You can lead a horse to water….
Fasted until 1pm workout then did a modified Big 5, replacing the overhead press with a body weight dip to avoid the motion that would aggravate my shoulder. Increased weight by 5# on the initial Big 3 exercises and got good time under load. Light traffic at the gym, so flew from machine to machine with no delay. Very hard metabolic workout in a very short amount of time. Once the 1st of the year hits the gym traffic will skyrocket until around mid February.
Workout(9 minutes):
-Leg Press: Used different machine. Up 5# and down 11 seconds. Still almost 90 seconds. I should be super slowing the entire stack by March if all goes well.
-Chest Press: Had seat a touch higher to have a more downward, less painful movement for shoulder. Up 5#, down 20 seconds.
-Seated Row: Up 5#, down 30 seconds.
-Dips: Body weight only. Got just above minimum recommended time under load.
-Pull Down: Reduced weight from usual since it wasn’t first pull exercise. Got barely over a minute.
The added 2 really made the workout tough eventhough it was only 9 minutes total for the workout. The reduced time reflects the lower exercises times now that I finally moved the weight up.
Next workout will be in South Carolina at Ultimate Exercise after a good 11 or 12 days of recovery. I plan on doing a quick tabata and some light activity in the meantime, maybe.
Doug,
your posts get better the more you do it. I think your appeal to the masses is that you don’t talk down to folks and you explain things in a delivery that is understandable to the common man. You also talk about mistakes you’ve made over the years which is rare for “experts” in any field. You have a certain human appeal that many people could learn to incorporate in their daily lives.
Rotary Torso 135 lbs 1min 45 secs
Lat Pull Downs 105 1min 20 secs
Overhead Press 75 1min 20 secs
Seated Leg Press 260 1min 30 secs
Calf Raises 105 1min 30 secs
Total TUL 7min 25 secs
weighted chin up
bodyweight chin up
close grip bench press
leg press(right leg)
barbell curl
overhead press
leg press(left leg)
Very interesting post, and timely as they usually are. After my workout I’m considering whether my HIT cycle was done improperly because of my car accident a month ago.
This is the back and lats cycle, and I was holding off on this due to the accident (rear-ended, very tight right side of back from hairline to tailbone). My masseuse recommended I go way down on the weights my first time back. While I did go down lower than I was comfortable with, mentally, I should have done more. I had to stop the bicep early because the bicep + trapezius (sp? The muscle on back/side of neck that connects the head to the shoulder) had a weird sharp pain, and my back is sore like the bad soreness of the accident. The lats and abs are good soreness like my normal workout. I may skip these exercises as long as needed until I’m totally recovered. Anyone else ever been in this situation?
I was also trying out a new gym, also had the baselines off a bit.
5 day recovery time
Total time: 13 min.
Pulldown: ~20% lower weight, TUL 126s
Seated Row: ~40% lower weight, TUL 67s (still exceptionally hard after the pulldown)
Lower back: First time on back machine, 92s, on target
Biceps: +5#, 69s TUL, stopped short
I’m hoping next week’s workout is better.
I’m also fighting the Weight Watchers Mantra battle in my family and close friends. I think they like the excuse that they can still have their highly processed sugar and flour foodstuffs, just “in moderation”. When you stop thinking about weight loss as the end goal, and instead think about what even those small amounts of highly processed foods are doing to your insides and blood chemistry, is when I think folks actually get it and find the strength to combat the high amount of marketing 24/7 to eat the wrong way. That’s what did it for me, anyway.
@Anthony, Jeff and Greg,
Thanks for the kind words, it means a lot especially coming from you guys. It really is amazing how many years I worked out in a commercial gym and had people tell me my heart was going to explode, or I was going to have a stroke all while saying I was not getting any “cardio”. It is very life-affirming to get positive comments from people whose opinion I value.
@Norm,
Thanks for the detailed WOW post. It is very instructive to see what you are up to.
@Doug,
Your workouts are always so freakin’ cool. The results of a lifetime of going against the grain of conventional wisdom.
@Senya,
Working out the sore areas in question (perhaps submaximally) may actually speed the resolution of your accident-related soreness. Fatiguing the muscles in question may actually cause a release of the trauma-related spasms. Please take this as advice from personal experience as opposed to “medical advice”. Others may wish to chime in as well.
Keep the WOW’s coming
Doug McGuff
@Senya-first, some good manipulation (in addition to the massage) from a DO or DC can work wonders on musculoskeletal trauma that involves deep structures. It often doesn’t take much. As a chiropractor I am bias, but we do see good success with those who don’t heal quickly after accidents.
Also, I have to second Dr. McGuff’s advice on working out. Whenever I have an injury, I try to get back into the gym as soon as possible, even if there is some discomfort, and it always seems to help. I advise patients to do the same as long as the discomfort they feel isn’t from increasing the injury (ie. tearing tissue, sharp pain, etc.).
@Dr. McGuff-I think you are right on about diet and exercise. They are totally synergistic. I think exercise (especially HIT, BBS style) holds an even more important place (vs. the 20% given to it by Dr. Harris) in promoting something that is not really within the evolutionary paradigm-functional longevity.
@Thomas,
You make a great point and I believe, but cannot yet prove that you are right. I think properly applied HIT is a mechanism whereby we can direct our genotype, rather than our genotype directing us….and to do so requires us to follow the adage from Spinoza that “nature to be commanded, must be obeyed”.
Doug McGuff
Hi Doug,
I agree with Greg’s and Thomas’s comments. On a personal note, BBS posts allows people to put different points of view in a non threatening manner and also allows people to share a wide range of HIT experiences.
Doug, “In reference to directing the genotype”.
You can go for a run, a cycle, a swim (aerobic activities) or throw some weights a round the gym but it doesn’t mean you are “Training”.
But, there is no way that you can do BBS/HIT type workout unless your “Training”.
With my workout today I thought I must have got ‘weaker’ because with my first exercise, the lat pulldown, I found it really hard work, but then I found I could increase the weight on the knee extension from 31kg (68lbs) to 35kg (77lbs), and increase the weight on the hip adduction from 18kg (40lbs) to 23kg (50lbs) ! I was very pleasantly surprised. The other machines I did the same weight and reps as last week.
Anne
W.O.W. 12/26/2009
Leg press stable wt./ Tul up 24 sec
Inclines stable wt./ + 10 sec
Lat pull stable wt./ + 11 sec
Declines stable wt./ + 6 sec
Rows stable wt./ + 23 sec
Lat. raise stable wt./ + 9 sec
The best workout I’ve had in several weeks and I can’t explain why. I had ample rest prior to the 2 previous workouts and felt strong going in and yet they were less than I had hoped for. This time, I was on call Christmas day and had to go out several times throughout the day and night which ruined two night’s sleep. I went into the workout tired, and with a headache, yet all TUL’s showed marked improvement.
@ Doug
I can only echo Greg’s, Jeff’s and Anthony’s sentiments on your post. As usual, you hit the bull’s eye. With regard to your workout itself, I feel you definitely have something there with regard to striving for perfect form and intensity vs. just progression. I have noticed improvements since I dropped back on the weights and strive to be closer to “the letter of the law” in my form. I’d rather leg press 400# in strict form than 500# where the form is compromised and I am inviting injury.
Ed H
@Thomas - thanks - what do DO and DC stand for? I am getting deep tissue massage, they aren’t the fun, fluffy swedish massages, that’s for sure, have another one this afternoon. Is that what you mean?
Amy’s workout last night:
Nautilus pullover
Nautilus overhead press
Nautilus pullover
Nautilus incline press
MedX Avenger leg press
@Senya-a DC is a chiropractor and a DO is an osteopath. Osteopaths operate more along the lines of MD’s but some do manipulation. DC’s do mostly manipulation. Finding a good chiropractor is tough-the techniques vary as do the philosophies. Many DC’s will prescribe more manipulation than is needed (that’s my opinion-they are running a business after all). It is best to get a referral from someone you trust. If you decide to pursue this and need advice or have questions, don’t hesitate to ask me as I check this blog frequently. Good luck.
Norm Jones is in Montreal and has had difficulty posting his WOW for whatever reason so I’ve been posting them for him. I thought part of his e-mail was interesting for folks that work out without trainers so I’ve included it.
Ed Garbe
Ultimate Exercise
Yesterday was my day for this week’s WOW and I followed one of your tips you gave me in the last email. Specifically, I performed the various exercises with my eyes closed, and what a difference that made. I was “in the zone” because I was not watching the clock causing me to shut down at 1min, 30 secs. Furthermore, I concentrated on form and breathing. I can only say that I was truly amazed at the increases in both resistances and times I was able to handle.
My performances were as follows:
Ab Crunch 145lbs (+10) 1min 40secs(+9)
Back Extension 205 (+10) 2min (+20)
Chest Press 120 (+15) 1min 30 (+10)
Chest Flies 90 (N/C) 1min 15 (+15)
Rear Deltoids 45 (N/C) 1min 50 (+30)
Leg Press 260 (+20) 1min 55 (+15)
Total TUL 10min 10sec
As you have pointed out, my reward for longer TUL’s is increasing the resistances which I will do the next time.
Cheers, and enjoy the festive season.
Norm
Dr. McGruff, have you seen Sugar: The Bitter Truth by Lustig, I found it on youtube, great info on sugar.
Rob W,
Yes, I have watched Dr. Lustig’s lecture twice. It is truly amazing, especially the biochemistry. I borrowed from it in my own presentation to clients and listed this youtube video as a resource. I highly recommend it to all who follow this blog.
Doug McGuff
January 2, 2010
1. Chest Press: 316 lbs / 1:40
2. Compound Row: 308 lbs / 1:23
3. Lateral Raise: 102 lbs / 0:55
4. Abdominal (NAUT): 110 lbs / 1:10
5. Triceps: 130 lbs / 1:00
6. Wrist Flexion: 120 lbs / 1:08
7. Wrist Ext.: 70 lbs / 1:00
Duration: about 19 minutes
Just getting into this paleo thing with intermittent fasting… it is ridiculously easy to stick to… I’m also about one third the way through “Good Calories, Bad Calories”… very interesting… anyone been on heartscanblog”dot”blogspot”dot”com and have any thoughts on this “track your plaque” and home testing supplies? As someone who has had both a heart attack and surgery, I’m keenly interested in tracking the effects of the paleo lifestyle. I was never high carb, but I’m finding carbs are now down a fair bit, as is protein but fat is up. On a side note heavy cream is amazing with Berries… lol
I’ve had a pint of grass fed heavy cream daily for over a month now.
Love it =)
@Anthony-do you drink it as is or do you add anything?
Ya, I usually add a little bit of coffee. Tends to add flavor… =)
No seriously, I just have simple coffee every day, but add a horrendous amount of cream.
I do drink the cream straight on occasion though. As long as it’s not “ultra pasteurized”, it actually tastes pretty good.
Doug,
A bit off topic.
I’m stilling internally debating a second training session. Having done once-a-week for the past 6+ years, my thinking is that given that I am 6+ years older and that my hormonal response is less today than it was 6 years ago (simply due to age), that another sub-maximal session should be done simply to elicit a response. Another option is doing a Graded Exercise Protocol once-a-week with the same objective in mind. Would such a plan make any significant difference? My intuition (and limited knowledge) says yes, but we all know how accurate that can be.
Hugh
Hugh,
Doing a modestly demanding activity aside from HIT is a subject of much debate on HIT sites. It’s mostly wasted pixels.
Only you can decide how much activity makes you feel good and still “does no harm”. If HIT made it impossible for me to hike, or do some MA, I wouldn’t do it. Not worth it. I say do what you like and use HIT to maintain strength and muscle as you age.
Griff
Hugh,
Increasingly, I think of this lifestyle as an exercise in minimizing unfitness. We use gradient descent to find the minimum. It sounds like you are in a local minimum. To get yourself out of there, you might try just a bit more variety than a new plan. Make variety itself the new plan.
Thanks for the feed back.
Dr. McGuff:
Excellent post, excellent. FWIW, I’ve now established a Harris/Eades energy intake scheme that has my weight and body fat stabilized at 163.5 and 11% respectively, values that are the mean across several weeks now. I continue to work with John Wood once per week on a mixed M-Factor/Continuous motion A-B-C protocols, cycling through each once/calendar week.
In combination, that regimen has produced some quite startling lipid values, which have my physician apoplectic, to wit: TC 260, HDL 101, and LDL 160. The freakin’ idiot lab did not calculate VLDL, nor did it break out LDL values; indeed, it did not calculate triglyceride value, although 18 months or so ago it was 56. C-Reactive protein this time around was .14.
She immediately screamed the necessity of my “starting a statin,” and was seriously unimpressed with the 101 HDL. I of course refused.
I continue to be amazed at how “lab-value-sensitive” physicians are these days, and how those values are seen as determinative of health. E.g., over Thanksgiving, my brother-in-law, a heart attack survivor of 4 years or so, joined us for a family gathering. He of course does low-intensity, stead-state, treadmilling (argh), and eats the Canadian version of the AHA “heart health” diet.
He is on Lipitor of course and has been since his attack. He proudly reports that his “numbers are now ‘perfectly’ normal, and says this all the while his belly is hanging over the top of his belt, with levels of visceral adipose tissue deposits that scream out as an indicator of a pretty poisoned liver. Holy horse hockey!!
I cannot help but muse that one of the perhaps unrecognized effects of the statin craze is that the goal is to normalize lab values, and that such normalization obscures the real fact that one’s health is going down the shi**er, but, since the lab values are normal, real indicators of poor health are rationalized away.
Keep up the good work, sir.
tony