Mon 21 Dec 2009
W.O.W. 12/20/09- Bad workout=great results
Posted by Doug McGuff under Uncategorized
I have been working some really busy shifts at the ER, so recovery may be compromised. For those that are curious, it is NOT busy because of H1N1, just garden variety ER stuff. As a matter of fact, during this “H1N1 crisis” I have admitted exactly ZERO patients with complications from this illness and have seen much less flu than I have seen in a typical flu season. Things that make you go hmmm.
This workout was somewhat frustrating and unsatisfying. All of the weights felt very heavy and difficult to manage. Failure occurred suddenly and generally sooner than I was expecting. I am glad I had to wait a day to write this post. If I had written it right afterwards I would have complained, but today I feel fantastic. A pleasant but significant degree of soreness with a great sense of well being is present upon awakening. This is a pattern that I have noted repeatedly in my workout journals. Sometimes the workouts that seem to be the worst turn out to be the best.
Leg Press – up 2lbs, TUL down 20 seconds
Pulldown- same weight and TUL
Chest Press- up 2lbs, TUL down 2 seconds
Pullover- up 2.5lbs, TUL stable
Overhead Press- up 2lbs, down 2 seconds
Post your WOWs and your thoughts
Dr, McGuff,
I have found the stress of modern pharmacy would necessitate a limit in my WO’s, as to a “minimalistic” level. Therefore, I’ve been particularly interested in Mentzer’s consolidation & athletes’ routines, your own routines, and Mr. John Little’s routines. Further, the McMaster studies and Martin Gibala’s work (as described in BBS) seem to indicate that quite a lot of benefit can be had with a “minimalistic” exercise approach!
I often get a very good feeling (never frustrating) when my weekly leg press seems to easily gain another 5-20 pounds & perhaps a few more reps. This is personally rewarding. Also, minimalistic routines make for very easy record keeping, as even I can “remember” (it is far more easy to remember pleasurable experiences) exactly how much weight was used last!
Even though a lot of BBS suppositions were based on Martin Gibala’s work, and the subsequent McMaster studies, I do not believe enough discussion has been established to gleam the full impact of this important work. Even Gibala seemed to indicate “less work” (this is where minimal workouts come in) may illicit the desired global metabolic effect as well! Your comments would be welcomed!
Marc
Doug,
I took a page out of your wife’s workout frequency and took 14 days between workouts. It was a monster workout - the weights felt light and my TULs went up a minimum of 10 seconds for each exercise. I’m wondering if I should workout every 2-3 weeks and perform some sort of tabata protocol in between to maintain metabolic adaptations. I own a schwin aerodyne that as been collecting dust. Doug what are your thoughts to weight training every 3 weeks and performing 2 tabata type workouts in between?
Greg
barbell overhead press
deadlift
tricep pushdown straight to:
close grip bench press
weighted chin up
Stuck with a Big 3 plus 2 rotation. Fasted since a snack last night. I could have gone up on all 3 Big movement as I was 90 seconds or nearly so on all. I decided to keep the weight the same and go for more time and a more metabolic conditioning workout. I definitely felt it afterward.
Workout:
•Leg Press: Same weight, up 8 seconds.
•Chest Press: Same weight, down a second. Essentially flat.
•Seated Row: Same weight, up 13 seconds. I was happy with this since the weight felt really heavy in the beginning.
•Ab Curl: Same weight, up 6 seconds.
•Back Extension: Up 10#, up 16 seconds.
My wife had a very weak workout. Below TUL on all exercises at the same weight or lower. I think this coincides with monthly hormonal variation, but it is hard to tell for sure.
My experience is that if the workout goes bad then I feel like dirt afterward, not better.
jeff
Mark and Greg,I have celiac and crohns disease plus I have gastroparesis. Been told that im the only one My Doc has ever heard of who has all three.I can only progess with short routines,ie consolidated type.Ive tried a bit more volume and I will get sick. I try for once a week,but If I dont feel right I wait till I do. Ive gone up to 3 weeks or longer between workouts.Sometimes I have to stop for a while and work my way back.My A routine im close to where I was.My B routine has a way to go. I could just drop the B routine and be ok with my A routine.I had to wait almost 3 years after years of training. Sometimes I think I should not train at all cause of the stress of life.My latest workouts are A- Leg Press,pullover/ss pulldown
B- Static chin hold,Dip,and sometimes db lateral raise. This way its upper body if I train once a week,every 7 days and lowerbody every 14 days. Both upper body workout hit my arms and torso. I keep my tuls low,40-60 seconds.Some of us may need to cut back and do this others not. You have to find out for your self.The hardest part for me is too not try and do more. Im not afraid to cut down to 1 if a have to.I may be makeing my self more Ill.
Hi Doug,
I read your workout comments with interest noticing how you felt during the workout as to how you felt 24 hours later. I have often felt very much the same way during the workout the weights can feel heavy but a day or two later you body feels fresh and recovered. I noticed that some of your weights went up but TUL slightly decreeased I am experiencing similar rates of progression weights up TUL down slightly. Though overall spending more time above the baseline than below the baseline.
Could I make a comment on Marc post in relation to “minimalistic” approach to exercise. IMO the minimalistic approach to exercise is only “minimalistic” in relation to conventional methods of training where the norm is “low intensity exercise and “more the better”. The Gilbala’s and the MacMaster studies are only proving what a lot of people have known for many many years - Jones, Darden Mentzer, McGuff, Little, Baye and many other great minds in the field of exercise. “Recognition”
For all have a merry Xmas.
W.O.W. 12/19/2009
Lower Back stable wt./ 3 reps/3:24 sec
Leg Press up 5# /down 6 sec
Inclines stable wt. and TUL
Lat pull up 5# /down 1 sec.
Declines stable wt./ down 2 sec
Rows up 5#/ down 6 sec.
@ Doug
Perhaps our biorhythms are on the same cycle. This workout seemed very difficult even though I felt good going in. However, I likewise experienced very pleasant next day soreness and what I refer to as a feeling of “growth stimulation” to a degree greater than many workouts in which I progressed in weight and TUL.
Sometimes the only thing consistent about my workout is the inconsistency. All in all, I am pleased with the workout although, as in your case, I wasn’t happy at the time.
Ed H
Amy just had another incredible workout:
Nautilus leverage row
barbell bench press
-60 sec rest-
Nautilus overhead press
Hammer Strength H-Squat
chin up
11 min 45 sec
@Marc
Just a quick comment on your ‘consolidation routine’ comments. I do a four way split with 5 - 7 rest days in between. Three out of the four workouts consists of three sets, the other four sets. This means that I do most of the exercises including dips, squats, chins, deadlifts etc once every 3 - 4 weeks. It certainly works well for me and continues to do so after nearly a year on pretty much the same routine. I’ve done a some minor adjustments here and there to keep progress going, but it’s the same basic frameworks that I started off with.
I know it’s not strictly the same as Mike Mentzer’s consolidated routine but it’s simple, minimalistic and works well.
For example, yesterday’s WO4 was Nitro thigh extns, Nitro abdominal crunches and full range deadlifts. Workout length was 8:59.
I hope you don’t mind me chipping in before Doug on this.
Marc (and all),
I still very much support the idea of minimalist/consolidation routines. This notion tends to get shouted down from other factions of the HIT camp, but it always seems to bubble back to the surface. It is hard to ignore the “knocking it out of the ballpark” experience that occurs after a 14 day respite.
Greg,
I have often thought that performing a good HIT workout every 14-28 days with some sort of metabolic (like Tabata) protocol interspersed might be a very productive routine. John and I have often discussed the possibility that one may only need to workout about as often as they get a haircut. John’s BodPod experiments seem to support this. I have not personally pushed frequency out like this…I think I love working out too much. Once a week continues to work for me. I would encourage anyone interested to try Greg’s proposal and report their results to the BBS community.
Doug McGuff
@All
My wife, inadvertently, end up following something similar to what Doug suggested in the past 2 months. She had some minor health problems, so ends up working out every 14-21 days but shows continuous progress (doing Big Three). In her last workout she increased her chest press by 5lbs and 6 seconds for example. Leg press and pull-down had similar increases in weight and TUL. She wasn’t in her best shape either (middle of her period, I had to force her to come with me as it has been 21 days since her last workout). She can go back to once a week now but she might just continue as such (working out every two weeks or so) if we do not see meaningful progress over the next few weeks. One thing that is missing is she is not doing any other metabolic conditioning in between. We are both on BBS-style workouts since July 2009. I might give this a shot when my progress on Big Three slows down (switched to Big Three, with one or two isolation such as wrist curls or lowerback in the last 2 months) but for now I am progressing so I am not gonna mess up with it
My WOW: each rep approx 10 sec raise, 10 sec lower:
Lateral pulldown 35 kg (77 lbs) 4 reps
Leg press 143 kg (315 lbs) 3 reps (up 1 kg)
Chest press 30 kg (66 lbs) 5 reps
Leg extension 31 kg (68 lbs) 3 reps
Overhead shoulder press slot 5 4 reps
Seated row 30 kg (66 lbs) 5 reps
Hip adduction 18 kg (40 lbs) 8 reps
Biceps concentration curl 6 kg (13 lbs) each arm 3 reps each arm
Happy Christmas !
with best wishes,
Anne
WOW 12/22/09
Last workout 11/24 (Makes WOW an oxymoron)
Life Fitness Leg Press: 180# (+10), 2:10 (unch)
Machine Row: 95 (+10), 1:59 (unch)
45 degree side raise: 40 (unch), 1:42 (+0:09)
Cable external shoulder rotation left: 15 (unch), 1:09 (-0:30)
Cable external shoulder rotation rightt: 15 (unch), 1:42 (-0:17)
I want to get the times more in the 60-90 second range.
Last time, I did the shoulder rotations before the side raises. Also, I completely changed the shoulder rotations position, based on Bill DeSimone’s recommendations to me on this forum.
To Dave S,
I have Irritable Bowel Syndrome. I know that it is a different issue than yours. But there is often some overlap, both in symptoms and in treatments.
I found years ago that eating low-carb ameliorated my symptoms markedly, though it was not a “cure.”
Since November 2008, I have been experimenting with more radical dietary interventions. For 6 months, I ate a kind of Paleo diet. No dairy, grains, or tubers. I mostly avoided raw food and fruit.
I definitely felt worse.
So, in June 2009, I went more extreme. I went zero carb. I have now completed more than 6 months of that and I have definitely found that I have digestive problems with zero carb, than with low-carb. The last few weeks I have been doing various experiments within zero carb and have had a lot of diarrhea. That’s one reason why it’s been so long since my previous workout. Along with the diarrhea I was feeling drained and I was getting bad leg cramps disturbing my sleep. Nonetheless, I had what I would classify as a great workout today.
This is probably my last workout this year. I am going to give this radical diet one last chance, by taking some antibiotics, testing the theory that IBS is caused by Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth (SIBO), as propounded by Mark Pimentel. One of the antibiotics wastes tendons and can lead to ruptures. So, once the antibiotics start I will stay away from the gym.
If the antibiotics don’t work, I am going to eat low-carb. What I have found, and this flies in the face of everything that I know intellectually and everything that appeals to me from an aesthetic standpoint, is that my gut reacts best when I eat mostly meat and get a small amount of my carbs from refined grains. Yes, I know how evil white flour is. But in small quantities, white flour, white rice, white potatoes, and the like, soothe my gut.
I wish you the best.
dip
chin 30 second hold
db lateral raise
Thanks Moises
I cant eat gluten at all.
I eat meat,fruit most of the time and salads with vegies.When im sick or cant eat I drink equate. Once in a while I eat peanut butter out of the jar,and share with my dog.
I quit; only functional training for me.
youtube.com/watch?v=lVfWQfoalnc
Hohoho.
My “wow” this week consisted of camping on an island on the west coast of Florida. See pic at
facebook.com/photo.php?pid=48031210&id=5140013
It was the third year in a row we went out to the island as a group, and as always, it was a ton of fun.
However, “fun” this year also included a cold front, which included strong winds, and temperatures in the low 40’s on one night. That might not seem like much, but being born and raised in Florida…BRRRRrrrrr!!!!! Might as well have snowed as far as I’m concerned.
The ride back was particularly hellish in my 17 foot boat. The temperature was low, the wind was moderate, but the angle at which the waves hit the boat constantly got everyone wet- especially me. I basically got to enjoy being soaked from head to toe – as in dripping wet- in ~50 degree weather, driving an open boat ~30 mph, for 2 hours. Brutal, but hey, never felt more “alive”! =)
As far as my body is concerned, today (day after the return), has been a day of rest and recovery. I slept over 10 hours for the first time in years, and my body aches not unlike it does after a workout. I assume this is from sleeping on the ground, lugging around an absolutely insane amount of fire wood, and playing football and “manhunt”.
Manhunt was especially interesting since I sprinted all out for over 100 yards, for the first time in probably a year. I felt like a horse, and faster than ever (literally).
My next workout is still scheduled to be in Orlando come late December or early January.
I wonder if this weekends activities hurt, helped, or made no difference on my training?
-Anthony
On a related note, my 12 year old brother is in that picture since I last minute decided to bring him on the trip.
This was a “controversial” move that no one was OK with, but it turned out to be a good decision.
The reason that no one was “okay” with it is what bugs me. The minute I suggested he come with the group camping, there was resistance from both of my parents, and friends that were coming camping.
Everyone listed off reason after reason why he shouldn’t come, and why it would be a bad idea. It basically stemmed down to him not being able to take care of himself, still being a kid, etc.
This was particularly disturbing to hear from BOTH of my parents about their youngest (last child).
It was disturbing because while it may be “natural” to want to hold onto your last child (4 total) the longest, I sensed a lack of faith in their son to grow up and think for himself, the same way I (gradually) did.
At 10 years old I was out on the same size boat I took out this weekend, with one friend, fishing, right alongside men in their 20’s, 30’s, and 40’s. Which surprisingly enough is legal in the state of Florida with a “boaters license”.
At 12 (my brothers current age), I was camping on an island, in the middle of the river, not 30 minutes from the state park we camped on this past weekend.
My brother can not do any of these things, which saddens me. Not only was he not taught how to do these things, but he is not even encouraged to take steps in that independent and adventurous direction. In fact it is almost cyclical in the sense that he is unable to do these things, never exposed to experiences that will help him grow into a young man, and at the same time, discouraged from even thinking that he could do these activities.
Which concerns me as his older brother. I had the rare opportunity to watch different generations graduate high school with a sister 5 years my senior, one 3 years my junior, and of course my own (and not counting friends of different ages in between those years).
It seems that every passing year, students in my hometown are less independent, less responsible for their own actions, and more reliant on others to do their thinking for them, and even take care of them.
It’s as if the spirit of “leave me alone as much as possible, and allow me to figure things out on my own, mess up, and learn”, has gradually diminished each passing year in South West Florida.
Which leaves me to wonder how my brother will grow up in the coming years without encouragement to do what is right, and most likely, nothing like the actions of his peers, or the fading wisdom of his parents.
Took a bit of motivation to get to the gym, off by a few days, and I usually take that as some sign that I still need to recover. My back feeling good, really good actually, after the accident before Thanksgiving. Next cycle in 7 days is back exercises, will see how that goes.
For now, lower body:
9 day recovery
Total time: 11 minutes
Leg press: +1# for 178.5#, TUL -6s for 109s
Calf Raise: +1.25# at 9.25# dumbbell
R: TUL -21s at 63s
L: TUL -30s at 61s
Plank (Abs): 61s, focus on perfect form
For next cycle: Go up in weight on leg press, only reason I didn’t this time is the safety gate wasn’t big enough for my 5# weight adaptor. Might need to get another 2.5# adaptor. Or find a new gym! Keep calf raise at weight and target 90s TUL. When I got to abs, had a strong gut feeling (pun intended) to do Plank, it was interesting approaching it from a go-to-fatigue focus than from the normal pilates or cardio approach. Loved it. Will play with variations of plank because it’s an amazing all-around core exercise - definitely compound!
@Doug and others,
“I still very much support the idea of minimalist/consolidation routines. This notion tends to get shouted down from other factions of the HIT camp, but it always seems to bubble back to the surface. It is hard to ignore the “knocking it out of the ballpark” experience that occurs after a 14 day respite.”
The arguments against this that I keep hearing consist primarily of “I tried consolidated; I kept getting stronger and stronger but looking worse and worse”…. I’ve never been convinced of this, but at the same time I don’t doubt the sincerity of many of the people making this claim, so this has become something of an enigma for me to figure out. Typically, the solution from this group has been “variety”.
On the one hand, loosening of form over time and/or skill acquisition and or “bracing” (all the same thing?) with a specific lift explains part of this, but with some of the gains reported in weight progression on movements, it certainly shows folks getting stronger beyond what any cheating could accomplish.
The other possible explanation for “looking worse” is potentially diet obviously, and perhaps more infrequent exercise provides less fat burning stimulus/global metabolic conditioning and necessitates stricter diet and or some metabolic (tabata?) protocol in between workouts. Not sure if this explains it all.
When challenging people on results from more “variety”, I ask how many pounds of muscle have you gained?…. to which I received the response… “you can’t measure it that way”…. seems like a copout at first but consider the following:
I know many of the readers on this site have little interest in competitive bodybuilding, but I believe there is something to learn from folks who excel at this.
Dave Goodin, I believe, (I don’t follow it that closely myself) is THE preeminent natural bodybuilder of modern times and is reported to have competed at pretty much the same body weight for over 20 years, albeit, most people agree he has “improved his appearance” significantly over the years…. !? In fact, in talking to fellow competitors during my recent experience who have competed for years, I asked the question, has your competition weight changed much over the years, their answer is “no”. Dr. Joe, who prepared countless amateurs and pros with diet for competition states that few if any people gain much muscle after the first two years of training, but “continuously bring up weaker parts” and “look bigger over time”
So here is another part of this riddle for me…. to me, the only thing that should change appearance is more muscle and/or less fat… and “bringing up weak parts” to me, means adding muscle of some parts, so if overall weight stays the same and fat % if equal at competition time (and that wouldn’t change a whole lot over 20 years of being top ranked for someone like Dave Goodin), then did muscle go down somewhere else?
Yet, looking at photos of bodybuilders (note NATURAL) over time, will in fact show improvements in appearance at similar if not identical bodyweights… now I have learned that there is a lot of illusion in bodybuilding and simply improving posing skills is far more important than people outside the sport realize.
Getting back to original idea about consolidation…. it just seems to me that if consolidation actually puts on muscle, and diet is kept strict, it should improve appearance inevitably, it seems. Errors in my logic?
One of the most important aspects of HIT is the hormonal response by the body that it creates. I maintain that it is the massive hormonal response (more so than the mechanical damage to the body the training creates)that actually causes the changes we want. My reservation with the consolidated, once every two weeks, training is that I’m not getting the hormonal “hit” (pun intended)that creates the change I’m chasing. Adding HIT style anerobic training might fill the gap between sessions. I’m not sure about that though.
@Anthony-sounds like a fun (and cold) trip. People are often surprised to hear that after living in Arizona for a few years, we feel very cold in the winter time when it gets down in to the 50’s.
I did things as a kid that I do not let my kids do now. We never used a seat belt. We often traveled in the back of an open pick up truck. I roamed the neighborhood far and wide (miles) at age 7 and didn’t have to check in often. I am convinced that the world really isn’t more dangerous now (just different) than in the 70’s -but we hear about the bad things much more now, so it seems like a worse place. Anyway, I think your brother has plenty of time to experience things and it sounds like you were exceptionally “free” as a kid and coped well with the challenges.
I have four children (the oldest is 12) and I guard them pretty closely. In my opinion, 12 is too young an age to turn them over to the “world” for an education-they often get chewed up and spit out. Some may do well, but many don’t-their time for leaving the nest will come and hopefully they will turn to home for answers when needed. That is the way I look at it anyway.
@Rick-I think the diet has to be adjusted when using any type of consolidated routine (I would consider the BBS BIG 5 a consolidated routine as well). That is where the low carb diet shines as it helps keep the glycogen tanks from filling to capacity and blunts hunger, making low calorie eating easier. I don’t think going from a BIG 5 to a BIG 3 is a major consolidation (although working out once every two weeks vs. once every week is), but it does likely decrease the metabolic effect of the workout. I think when you consolidate (as in doing one very short workout per week, and especially one every 2 weeks) you have to leave the glycogen lowering to the diet and less to the workout.
@Hugh and anybody who wants to comment-I keep hearing about the growth hormone response to exercise (especially on Art Devany’s site) but through my studies (incomplete) it seems that the growth hormone response to HIT exercise is mainly to mobilize fuel and spare muscle, counterbalancing catabolic hormones like cortisol, and is very temporary and modest compared to increases experienced at other times of the day (like during sleep). Is a the GH response really a big deal when it comes to HIT exercise?
wed 23.12 big 3
1. squat 15 reps
2. chin-negative only 5 slow reps
2. dip-negative only 5 slow reps
Merry Christx to Dr. McGuff & Mr. Little your imput for superslow & max comtract is much apprecated as well as utilized by this 52 yr old body!
@Hugh
This could be why a routine which rotates weekly between 3 or 4 different routines (using different exercises) could provide the hormonal “hit” while also providing the added time in between individual exercises to allow greater recovery thus better progression.
John
@Thomas
I wouldn’t discount the effects of HIT on HGH production. See below:
The exercise-induced growth hormone response in athletes.
Godfrey RJ, Madgwick Z, Whyte GP.
Brunel University, Uxbridge, Middlesex, UK.
Human growth hormone (hGH) is secreted in a pulsatile fashion, generally following a circadian rhythm. A number of physiological stimuli can initiate hGH secretion, the most powerful, non-pharmacological of which are sleep and exercise. hGH has many varied roles throughout life, from growth itself, including the turnover of muscle, bone and collagen, to the regulation of selective aspects of metabolic function including increased fat metabolism and the maintenance of a healthier body composition in later life. The exercise-induced growth hormone response (EIGR) is well recognised and although the exact mechanisms remain elusive, a number of candidates have been implicated. These include neural input, direct stimulation by catecholamines, lactate and or nitric oxide, and changes in acid-base balance. Of these, the best candidates appear to be afferent stimulation, nitric oxide and lactate. Resistance training results in a significant EIGR. Evidence suggests that load and frequency are determining factors in the regulation of hGH secretion. Despite the significant EIGR induced by resistance training, much of the stimulus for protein synthesis has been attributed to insulin-like growth factor-1 with modest contributions from the hGH-GH receptor interaction on the cell membrane. The EIGR to endurance exercise is associated with the intensity, duration, frequency and mode of endurance exercise. A number of studies have suggested an intensity ‘threshold’ exists for EIGR. An exercise intensity above lactate threshold and for a minimum of 10 minutes appears to elicit the greatest stimulus to the secretion of hGH. Exercise training above the lactate threshold may amplify the pulsatile release of hGH at rest, increasing 24-hour hGH secretion. The impact of chronic exercise training on the EIGR remains equivocal. Recent evidence suggests that endurance training results in decreased resting hGH and a blunted EIGR, which may be linked to an increased tissue sensitivity to hGH. While the potential ergogenic effects of exogenous GH administration are attractive to some athletes, the abuse of GH has been associated with a number of pathologies. Identification of a training programme that will optimise the EIGR may present a viable alternative. Ageing is often associated with a progressive decrease in the volume and, especially, the intensity of exercise. A growing body of evidence suggests that higher intensity exercise is effective in eliciting beneficial health, well-being and training outcomes. In a great many cases, the impact of some of the deleterious effects of ageing could be reduced if exercise focused on promoting the EIGR. This review examines the current knowledge and proposed mechanisms for the EIGR, the physiological consequences of endurance, strength and power training on the EIGR and its potential effects in elderly populations, including the aged athlete.
But, HGH is just one of many hormones that are released in response to HIT. Epinephrine, norepinehrine, corticotropin, glucocorticoids, thyroid hormone, all of which impact fat usage. Testosterone is released, and we know what that does. All of these, and there are more, impact the body in ways we deem beneficial.
@hugh-thanks for the info
Thank you Dr. McGuff for your reply, and everyone else.
I seem to lack endurance when utilizing minimalistic WO’s. So, IMHO, a lower intensity activity, such as fast walking, playing basketball, swimming might help for endurance conditioning. I don’t like the feeling I get, for example, when I walk a long flight of stairs and get out of breath.
Therefore, A leg-press only routine, chin-up only, or dip-only WO might need some supplemental metabolic conditioning to keep one’s “wind” up. A minimalistic HIT WO interspaced amongst many aerobic activities. But from my experience, wind suffers with 1 set every week or 2!
BTW, excellent post Rick!
Marc
Hi Doug,
In reference to “consolidated/minimalistic routines, “A Consideration”. I am 54 years old at the the gym where I train another gentlemen who would be a few years older than me holds legendary status for how long he trains (up to 3 hours a day). I am still recovering from a shoulder operation the reason for doing the leg workout. I completed one set of leg presses 370lbs, 20 reps one set of leg curls 150lbs 19 reps and one set of leg extenstions 148 lbs 20 reps approximately 3 min TUL’s - no rest between sets.
I walked past the leg extension machine whilst the other gentleman was doing his leg extension exercise thinking that I would see him lifting a large amount of weight his weight was 78 lbs doing sets (not sure of how many sets but a lot of sets) of 10 reps resting one-two minutes between sets.
Doug covered this in “Specific Meatabolic Conditioning” BBS.
In relation to Marc’s post. I competed in triathlons for many years I know that from experience to increase your endurance in swimming, cycling, running you have to train all three disciplines. Most improvements come about from improving “skills”, there is minimal “endurance” carry over from one discipline to another. I competed against many top triathletes who were far surperior to me in individual disciplines but could never beat me in a triathlon race.
Marc if you take up fast walking, playing basketball, swimming, you will get good at these activities. Most swimming improvements come about from improving technique if you don’t improve your swimming technique than every time you try to increase the intensity of effort you will start breathing harder.
marc,
I tend to skip strength training workouts in the warm months when I’m more active generally. I think if I’m hiking, doing some MA, and so forth, I might only work out once every 10 days of so. If I do some higher intensity movement, I don’t lose “wind”. I’ve noticed no loss in strength when I do this. Weight and bf% are mostly diet. If you maintain strength at some given frequency, who cares?
Griff
WOW 12-24-09
I almost called it off this week due to a stomach issue the night before. I was sick most of the day prior to the workout, but wanted to give it a try regardless. Doug H had called me and told me I was going to workout with his son. It was squat day so I did not want to miss it. I’m glad I went.
We each did a couple of warm-up squats with light weight, then he did his working set. I was amazed at his form, it was perfect. This kid was born to be a power lifter and having one of the best as “dad” helps too.
We mirrored each other on most of the lifts, except for one. Doug had him do DEAD LIFTS on the middle of the workout!!! It was amazing! Not many people could do both in the same workout but he did it and smiled at me.
My workout was a big 4 type:
Deep Squats
Nautilus Chest Press
Nautilus Pullover
Med X Avenger overhead press
I set PRs on every lift! I felt great, the weight felt light on every lift. I was amazed that I did this well. I had almost called it off, but I’m glad I went. I’m sore as hell but it’s a good thing.
Feel like jotting this down somewhere, better here than nowhere eh?
Yesterday (christmas day) my left knee (injured in high school football, repeatedly), hurt worse than ever before. Perhaps even as much as when the initial incident happened- when I dislocated my kneecap.
The pain was very, very sharp, and lasted about 30 seconds, mostly under pressure.
Its not uncommon for my knee to hurt, or even “lock up” like a joint ready to be “cracked” or “popped” (like a knuckle), but it did not feel that way at all. It felt completely normal “stiffness” wise, but the pain was incredible. It literally made me scream, and nearly topple over- twice. Bending my leg had no effect on the pain, which again, was excruciating.
What’s more, I have no idea what could have triggered this. Usually if I run around a lot, it will get stiff, or if I sleep on it wrong. Pain usually stems from that, and is not this sharp or severe. Sometimes the entire joint even “cracks” (like a knuckle), and feels much better. But, no extra activity lately (save the camping trip, which was many days beforehand, and did not correlate like past experiences between running around/pain, it’s usually the day after, if at all).
But ya, this concerns me, big time (if it happens again in the next 12 months anyway). I’ve always worried my knee would have problems beyond discomfort, at an early age, but not 21…
Gonna go stick it in a hot spa for the first time in a while tomorrow, see how my leg responds.
Anyone else have knee problems NOT related to major connective tissues? (acl, mcl, etc).
I used to have knee problems when doing a lot of squats. It was mostly due to form and I corrected it with a change in squat form-from a bodybuilder type squat to more of a powerlifter’s form. Going heavy in the squat (for me, anything over 300 lbs) was always “risky” for when in came to my knees-sometimes I would get achy, and sometimes I wouldn’t. One time I had acupuncture done for the pain and it worked great, but the best remedy was to stop the squatting or reduce the squat weight. I no longer squat due to an inguinal hernia that really doesn’t like the exercise. I have had no knee issues at all since I stopped the squat. I see patients all of the time with knee problems and it is extremely painful-something I do not want to experience in my later years if possible. I may never go back to the squat again-we’ll see.
Anthony, yours sounds like a meniscus problems but who knows. They can suddenly start hurting if prompted to “crimp” or “fold” when damaged and can definitely cause that stiff, “need to pop” sensation. Anyway, I hope things get better soon. Good luck.
Anthony - I had a torn cartilage in my left knee many years ago which happened without ever having done anything which could have caused such an injury. It just happened. I had to have it repaired with arthroscopy and it’s been perfect ever since, just as strong as the right knee, and I work my knees very hard with knee extensions and leg presses. You should see your doctor and have an MRI on it - it’s no good if it gives way when you’re coming down the stairs, could make you fall down seriously.
Anne
@Thomas
Thanks for the feedback. The knee is quite a joint. Would also like to avoid pain with it if possible.
@Anne
I had many x-rays and one MRI done on my knee*
*Get this, all paid cash by my mother in high school. When the doctor found out we were paying cash instead of using insurance, he cut all costs dramatically. I remember one time he cut a bill from $1,200 to less than $300. My mother couldn’t believe it. His reason? “I hate insurance companies”.
From memory, the bottom of my femurs are not formed “right”. “Right” in the sense that the bottom of my femurs are very very shallow, unlike most people’s who apparently deep bowl shapes there that help hold the kneecap in place.
I never had any problems growing up, but my sophmore year of highschool I tore my left kneecap all the way out, and then back in. No major ligaments were torn, but the doctor said all of the tiny ones under my kneecap tore, and that they were replaced with scar tissue.
I repeated this process an additional 4 times, same knee, until he finally demanded I stopped playing football.
To this day, it makes all sorts of fun noises when I bend it, but it doesn’t necessarily hurt, unless it gets “stiff”. I assume this is from the scar tissue that is larger, and weaker than the original tissue? (know anything about this Thomas?, or anyone else).
Anyway, last I checked there wasn’t a whole lot the doc could do. He and our team trainer just recommended I always keep my leg as strong as possible, especially the quadricep. I think I’ve done a decent enough job at that, but apparently there’s more to it than that (or not, and there’s nothing to be done).
About 6 month ago I bought Dr. Mc Guff’s Book. I decided to try his method. I have been going to the gym once a week for 6 months. One set of repetitions for “the big five”. The local owner of the gym told me I risked some mild muscle or tendon injury with this program. I needed to go 2 or 3 times a week. I followed the “body by science ” approach anyway. I usually stay there only 20 minutes a week. I am 53 and I had never lifted wheights before. At the beginning I lifted 80 KGs for 90 sec. at the leg press. Now I lift 170 Kgs for 100 sec.
I am taking Vit D3 and Omega 3 supplements and that could interfere with muscle growth. Anyway for the two days after my workout I have in my legs the same good feeling like I had gone skiing the day before. I think the gym owner is changing his mind. I am in a good shape for skiing and scuba diving. I will go on with this high intensity once a week program even if most trainers do not agree with it.
Antonio
Vit D and omega 3 interfere with hypertrophy? More info please. Wish my English were as good as yours.
Omega 3 PUFA have anti inflammatory effects. They compete with Omega 6 which have inflammatory effects. Exercise induces muscle inflammation which in turn starts muscle growth. There are a couple of studies that say that Omega 3 PUFA reduce the muscle inflammation after workouts and therefore decrease muscle growth.
Vitamin D appears to increase immunity and muscle strength. If one takes both supplements what is it going to happen ? I think nobody knows.
Antonio
@Anthony-patellar tracking problems (this is what it sounds like to me) are a pain-literally. You maybe having a problem wearing down the cartilage underneath the patella. It can be very painful. The stiffness maybe muscle guarding-your body’s response to an insult-even a slight insult that you may not be totally aware of (like repetitive or postural stress). Anyway, I’m sorry to hear about your knee problems and I think using a limited range of motion-like you do when you squat-is a good idea for your knee health.
@Antonio-interesting comments on omega 3, inflammation and anti-growth effects. I’ve not heard that before-I don’t think omega 3 f.a. literally stop inflammation, just help normalize so that inflammation isn’t overdone. But I’d like to see the studies (I was surprised when I read the study that shows how antioxidants can limit muscle growth). It’s good to hear you are having success with BBS, keep it up!
Anthony,
I agree with Thomas, the most likely cause is a meniscus tear. If you look at a meniscus from above, you will see a “C”-shaped cartilage cup. The tear usually tracks around the outside edge of the “C”. Occasionally this tear can flip up sort of like a bucket-handle. Once flipped up, it can fold over and become entrapped causing very sharp pain and sometimes “locking”. Later, the bucket handle can fall back into the horizontal plane causing symptoms to resolve again for a long time until something causes the bucket handle to flip back up. Usually, torsion on a hyperflexed knee is what can cause the handle to flip up.
Other than avoiding such movements, I would not bother with it unless it affects you more than 3 times per year. If it is a meniscus, the surgery is simple, done arthroscopically and has a quick recovery.
@Anthony,
Any objections to Omega 3 WRT muscle growth are only theoretical and are unlikely. The beneficial effects are well worth this theoretical objection.
Doug McGuff
Rotary Torso 135 lbs 1min 45 secs
Lat Pull Downs 105 1min 20 secs
Overhead Press 75 1min 20 secs
Seated Leg Press 260 1min 30 secs
Calf Raises 105 1min 30 secs
Total TUL 7min 25 secs