Sun 8 Nov 2009
W.O.W. 11/08/09
Posted by Doug McGuff under Uncategorized
Today’s workout was a Big 5 routine. I showed more improvement than I expected. This is a testament to enhanced recovery due to being off from the ER for the last 5 days.
Eric and Madeline (my kids) were in attendance and helped with record keeping. They did their own WOW’s as well.
MedX Leg Press- up 2lbs, up 10 seconds TUL
SS systems Pulldown- stable weight and TUL (no cam=recurrent sticking point)
Chest Press- up 2lbs, up 9 seconds TUL
Pullover- stable weight, up 11 seconds TUL
Overhead Press- up 2 lbs, up 8 seconds TUL
Participated in Rick Chartrand’s Skype Seminar/Roundtable yesterday. Lots of interesting discussion. Perhaps Rick can post a brief synopsis.
Here is a nifty little study I have found in the stack of paper beside my computer. Arthur Devany has written a lot about the fractal properties of the healthy heart beat. It seems that when healthy, the heart exhibits a random beat-to-beat variation that is fractal in nature. Disease states and protracted steady state activity have been shown to extinguish this healthy variation in heart rhythm, leaving a subject more prone to cardiac arrhythmia and sudden death. Here is a cool study that shows that strength training actually improves fractal properties of heart rate dymamics.
J Appl Physiol. 2008 Jul;105(1):109-13. Epub 2008 May 1.
Fractal scaling properties of heart rate dynamics following resistance exercise training.
Heffernan KS, Sosnoff JJ, Fahs CA, Shinsako KK, Jae SY, Fernhall B.
The Exercise and Cardiovascular Research Laboratory, Department of Kinesiology and Community Health, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, Champaign, IL 61820, USA. kheffer2@uiuc.edu
With aging and disease, there is a breakdown of the natural fractal-like organization of heart rate (HR). Fractal-like correlation properties of HR can be assessed with detrended fluctuation analysis (DFA). A short-time scaling exponent (alpha(s)) value of 1 is associated with healthy HR dynamics, whereas values that deviate away from 1, in either direction, indicate fractal collapse. The purpose of this study was to examine the effect of resistance exercise training (RT) on fractal correlation properties of HR dynamics. Resting ECG was collected at baseline, following a 4-wk time control period and 6 wk of RT (3 days per wk) in 34 men (23 +/- 1 years of age). Fractal properties of HR were assessed with DFA. There was no change in alpha(s) following either the time control period or RT (1.01 +/- 0.06 to 0.98 +/- 0.06 to 0.93 +/- 0.04, P > 0.05). Given the potential bidirectional nature of fractal collapse, subjects were retrospectively separated into two groups (higher alpha(s) and lower alpha(s)) on the basis of the initial alpha(s) by using cluster analysis. An interaction was detected for alpha(s) following RT (P < 0.05). There was no change in alpha(s) in either group following the time control, but alpha(s) increased following RT in the lower alpha(s) group (n = 18; 0.73 +/- 0.04 to 0.69 +/- 0.04 to 0.88 +/- 0.04) and alpha(s) decreased following RT in the higher alpha(s) group (n = 16; 1.20 +/- 0.04 to 1.24 +/- 0.04 to 0.98 +/- 0.04). In conclusion, RT improves fractal properties of HR dynamics.
PMID: 18450986 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Post your WOW’s…and your thoughts.
I’m certain RT Edwards will supply more details.Yesterday’s workout went like this:
deadlift
Nautilus incline press
leg press
standing barbell overhead press
60 sec positve chin up plus attempt at rep #2
My WOW for Nov 7th (Program A)
Ab Crunch (first time) 60 lbs 1min 50secs
Back Extensions 50 lbs 2mins 10secs
Seated Row 100 lbs 1min 26secs
Horizontal Chest Press 75 lbs 1min 10secs
Flies 40 lbs 1min 17secs
Horizontal Leg Press 150 lbs 1min 20secs
Total TUL 9mins 25secs
Total Time 17mins
11/8/09 9 days since previous WOW, 19 hour fast
Smith Squat- 320/68 20 reps
Up 15 lbs, up 13 seconds, down 3 reps
Smith press- 225/46 19 reps
Stable weight, up 3 seconds, up 3 reps
incline dumbbell curl- 40×2/49 7 reps
Stable weight, up 6 seconds, up 1 rep
hammer strength plate loaded pullover- 208/72 14 reps
Up 10 lbs, up 17 seconds, up 1 rep
tricep pressdown- 100/36 8 reps
same weight, up 3 seconds, same reps
dumbbell heel raise- 65lb r=8 l= 8
Down in reps on both. Could be due to a few factors, most likely is that I felt my calves kick in double time during my squat (which I imagine is due to the increased load). Right foot also dug in very very deep into the “aerobics” step platform I use.
nautilus ab machine (feet on the outside as always)- 165/44 21 reps
Same weight, up 3 seconds, up 2 reps
Had food about 90 minutes after working out, all meat day (no carbs except those found in meat, about to go eat more steak and chicken too).
Doug, Kurt Harriss recently posted similar discussion/research about “cardio”, worth checking out.
-Anthony
SSB squats 185xunknown reps - this was a break-in
hammer strength iso pullover 90
hammer iso pulldown 140
hammer bench 180
nautilus neutral grip press 100, breakdown to 90
all exercises after squats were 10/10 range, 60-90 sec to positive failure. Did this at a commercial gym, so more rest between sets than ideal. But happy to have access to the good equipment, so no complaining.
Cowboys win, and Texans sort of? Gosh you guys are sophisticates?? Dr. D., ‘fractals’!!? Geeze?! Long ago I was told that ‘fractal’ was another name for the ‘unconscious-God’??
I’m the old fart that does a modified BBS with just dumbbells at home.
I peruse these WOW’s (even though I don’t know what it means); and I’ve learned an awful lot.
I still have some problems with my mental logic, concerning ‘maintenance’; and how it would be an ‘un-ending’ downward spiral? If one was really ‘trying’ seems like it would be an ebb and flow type graph, from week to week?? Not a 25 to 30% decline from where one was once??
My real question is about this “catabolic state”?.. Some of you avid and well read post’rs, have mentioned your continual DOMS and muscle pain?? This is after the 6-11 day rests too. I’m just curious? In the credits of the BBS book, Dr. McGuff, references some studies on the ‘catabolic state’. One particular researcher stated the catabolic state could be present for ‘two months’ and even longer??!!! Also Dr. Doug talks about ‘gains’ in spite of one’s self?? In other words, progress or gains, is not an absolute indicator that one isn’t ‘over-trained’?!!! Have any of you, especially the DOMS people, ever taken a month or two off; and then determined how much strength you lost, or how much muscle pain you had subsequently?? I’d be very interested if someone has.
Lastly some remarks on Dr. McGuff’s criticism of steady state exercise, and this non existent ‘cardio’. You realize, Tiger Woods tore his ACL jogging, not playing golf. Tiger has also suffered from pretty serious shin splits?? Using a #1 driver might stress the body, but I don’t think it would cause shin splints??
Next one is the struggles and travails and hard work of that NY City Marathon winner?? I think he’s 36 years old? Perfect picture of health and fitness, right? Before the NY race, the 30′ish had to ‘overcome’ a ’stress fracture in his “hip bone”‘. A testament to courage and hard work, right? No pain, no gain?? Then again, how many 30 year old, fat, smoking, drinking, dudes; develop “hip fractures”??
I did my Big % according to the book on Friday. While I see minor,but steady improvements on all chest and back exercises, I am quite astonished by how quickly I progress on the leg press. I am improving by 5kg every week with a constant TUL. I am pushing 175 kg by now, and I am starting to worry, that the weight is going to hurt my spike. When do I know that it is too heavy? Can anybody comment on this?
I also made another interesting observation. In the last two months, I could not increase my TUL in the shoulder press. Friday, I just increased the weight by 1.25 kg and voi la, I achieved the same TUL, despite the greater weight. I wondered then, whether some muscles fatigue faster than others…?
Marc, Just curious what is your time under load? I’ve noticed a similiar observation with myself and others with more fast twitch type fibers and shorter time under loads ie < 60sec. If I’m stuck at the same rep range/TUL for more than 3 weeks I increase the weight and more times than not I reach the same TUL. Darrol
WOW 11/8/09
10 days since previous workout.
Pulldown 95# (+15), 2:19 (-0:35)
Row 85# (+4) 1:31 (+0:11)
Biceps–cancelled
Internal shoulder rotation left 35# (unch) 1:28 (+0:10)
right 35# (unch) 1:43 (-0:05)
I started this 3-day split on Sept. 4 and I have done 9 workouts, or each day 3 times.
I started this program with very little neck and shoulder pain and now I feel those pains coming back. For next week, I am considering making some significant modifications.
1. I want to do some moves weekly, to improve my neck and shoulder. So, I will do machine row weekly for the neck, and the internal and external shoulder rotations weekly for the shoulder.
2. I added some auxiliary moves for the 3-day split and most of them seemed to be very unproductive or downright counterproductive. The biceps machine (Strive) does not seem to be well-designed from a biomechanics perspective and I abandoned it in mid-rep yesterday. I am thinking of splitting the Big 5 over 2 days, except for the row, which I will do weekly.
3. So, I am considering the following 2-day split:
A-day: leg press, side raise, row, internal shoulder rotation, external shoulder rotation.
B-day: pulldown, chest press, row, external shoulder rotation, internal shoulder rotation.
I would expect my row performance to be worse on the B days, since it will have been preceded by the pulldown.
WOW Nov 07
This workout was a little different than the others, this workout was done WITH Doug Holland, his wife Amy supervised.
We started with the deadlifts, we each did some light reps to warm up before the working set. Also he wanted to watch my form to make sure I had ironed out my kinks from the last deadlift workout.
The workout went like Doug posted above with a couple of changes. We did work the same groups but used different machines so that they could be preloaded for our weight. That minimized the transition times.
Deadlift- I managed to get 15 reps to Dougs 19.
Nautilus leverage incline press- great set.
Hammer leg press- I did the Hammer Press while Doug was on the Nautilus Press. This on top of the deadlifts really kicked my butt.
Med X Avenger Overhead Press- This was a killer for me and had me panting like a dog.
Nautilus Row w/”Mitch Rapp Torture Cam”- I puked just before this set and missed Dougs chin-ups, But hopped into the seat for a few pulls on this machine. What a killer this cam is, wow is all I can say.
This was a monster of a workout. I enjoyed working with Doug and trying to match his form. Now, I felt like a truck had hit me and all plans I had for the after noon were scrapped, but I will say that was one of the best workouts ever.
Dr McGuff- FYI; although I was huffing and puffing I had no wheezing at all and never any uptake issues, color was good through out.
To all,
Thanks for your posts and comments.
@Anthony,
Thanks for the heads up about Dr. Harris’ blog post on cardio and heart disease. I suggest everyone check out the http://www.paleonu.com blog.
@JimV-thanks for your comments. WOW=workout of the week. Good comments about injuries from “cardio” and how Tiger tore his ACL jogging not playing golf. Far more athletes are hurt by silly training approaches than are ever hurt on the playing field.
@all- This reminds me…we recently had a brain bleed sent to the neurosurgery service. What was the mechanism of injury? Falling off of a Swiss Ball while trying to do squats while balancing on top. As Lazarus Long would say…”Stupidity is not a crime, but it is punishable by death”.
@Marc,
If you tend to run a low TUL in a certain movement and are having trouble progressing the TUL as a requirement for progressing the weight, then just try progressing the weight…most times you will achieve the same TUL. Check out the article on TUL at http://www.ultimate-exercise.com.
@moises,
Be careful not to overdo rotator cuff work. If they are under-recovered they may be vulnerable during your larger movements. I would suggest internal rotation on “A” and external on “B”.
@RT,
I got nauseous just reading about your workout. As we discussed in June, HIT will improve oxygen delivery to the point that oxygen uptake will not be as big an issue. I think your wheezing days are over.
Doug McGuff
9 days of recovery since last workout. I was in Europe on business and used it as an opportunity for some good rest. Repeated the Big 5 workout. Since we worked out in the late afternoon I was fasted more than usual(more on that in a later post) since I hadn’t eaten since dinner the previous night. At that time of day the traffic was light and we had no delays getting from machine to machine. Actually finished the workout in 9 minutes, a record time.
Big 5(9 minutes):
-Leg Press: Up 10# at the same time under load as previous. Still over 90 seconds. Nice gain.
-Overhead Press: Up 2.5# and down 9 seconds. Now under 90 seconds. Will keep it steady for next time.
-Pull Down: Up half a plate and down 11 seconds
-Chest Press: Same weight and up 4 seconds.
-Seated Row: Same weight and up 3 seconds.
It was nice to see improvements on chest press and row. Working out next Monday on 7 days rest. I think I might repeat the Big 5 again. We will see. If I can figure out a Big 3 plus 2 I like with the equipment available I might change gears for a few weeks. Any suggestions of what I can do to have Big 3 plus another 2, helpful single joint movements?
Dr. McGuff,
Thanks for the suggestion. I have changed my plan accordingly.
Jeff,
Leg Curl
Back Extension
Leg Press
Pulldown
Chest Press
The Leg Curl,back extension, Leg Press trio really hammers the posterior chain and will let you get more from the leg press without using excessive load.
Hope this helps.
Al
@Dough Thanks for the assurance. It was exactly what I did, more out of frustration though.
@darol
In that particular exercise, my time under load is 1:16. Then I get stuck somewhere on the way up, in other words, I am past the sticking point near the shoulders.
I have noted the same problem with a different back exercise. I simply could not do the movement longer than, say 90 sec, irrespective of the weight.
Does anybody know the reason?
Doug, thanks once again for participating in our skype/roundtable discussions this last Saturday. Synopsis… brief as I can, what I learned and what I don’t agree with.
Doug and Michael Petrella talked about whether there was an optimal training volume and frequency and Doug did an incredible job of explaining why variations among genomes may explain why some seem to do better with a little more volume and variety while others do better with consolidation and standardization. Both Mike and Doug talked a lot about nutrition, and how we have disproportionately focused on the stimulus (tweaking cams, exercise protocol etc.) and sometimes minimized or even outright ignored caring for the organism through proper nutrition etc. Great discussion ensued and I am looking into much of it further.
Further presentations went into the “need” for variety in exercise. Andrew Shortt, Michael Liposwki, Mike Petrella and Mark Houghton all associated with or influenced by IART founder Brian Johnston, definitely believe strongly that we adapt very quickly to standard protocols and that we need to continually change protocols. While I agree that simply focusing on continual progression can lead to gradual deterioration in proper form, and have us lose perspective between means and ends, and I do agree some variety can contribute to ensuring one truly works the targeted muscles properly and not just be able to put a bigger number on a chart which can lead to self deception in actual progress, I am far from convinced that variety is the panacea they seem to believe it is. Andrew attributes much of his recent improvements to the use of greater variety, and while I will stop short of saying it did not contribute, I see his greater discipline in dieting properly to be the major contributor. Having said that, I will add some variety to my weekly workout, but will limit largely to changing order of exercises, using standardization for the first exercise to track progress and using various protocols, tul’s, for the following exercises focusing on form and truly getting a good “feel” rather than over focusing on progression. So while I definitely don’t buy into variety as being a huge factor, I am grateful for the insights that I think it does have a place.
Next Bill DeSimone presented on some outside the box considerations. Unfortunately, I had to leave the room for much of Bill’s presentation and when I returned discussion had begun surrounding the supposedly “outdated” simplicity of Mentzer type consolidation and why it was “not effective”. I thought Alex Fee did a great job of defending the logic behind the Mentzer approach, and good points were made by all sides giving food for thought.
One thing that came to mind was the assertion of people being “addicted to the stimulus” as I believe a lot of what we do, including posting on threads like this fulfills a psychological need because even though Ken Hutchins distinguished between exercise and recreation, most people on this board, I will guess just “love to work out”… for most it is probably a greater challenge to back off and take the extra recovery days than it is to discipline to do the exercise. (one of the reasons hit has difficulty becoming mainstream, or also I believe why people like to buy into “variety”, which makes it even more fun.) I also think because doing exercise is regarded as “virtuous” in society, doing it, makes us feel good about ourselves.
Finally, the book “The Joy of Laziness” has an excellent chapter, citing links between heart disease, cancer, shorter life spans etc. with over exercising… many of the research coming from Ken Cooper founder of the Aerobics movement. While I don’t agree with much of the actual recommendations of the authors on exercise, this chapter, and the one on why overeating per se, can be really bad for you, is worth the read…..
Amy had another incredible workout last night after we closed the gym.It was her fifth workout in a row in which either all weights or TULs(or both) were up:
weighted chin up
bodyweight chin up
incline press
-60 sec rest-
overhead press
MedX Avenger leg press
pullover
@Al Thanks for the suggestion. I will try that. Any thoughts on another workout that I could alternate what you suggested with?
jeff
@Rick - “I believe a lot of what we do, including posting on threads like this fulfills a psychological need because even though Ken Hutchins distinguished between exercise and recreation, most people on this board, I will guess just “love to work out”… for most it is probably a greater challenge to back off and take the extra recovery days than it is to discipline to do the exercise.”
that is a superb point.
There is a real paradox here. I love to train…yet to get better I cannot train too often or too much
Jeff,
I would try something similar to what Dr.McGuff posts on here in the vain of a ‘little 6′ routine. Something that trains underdeveloped areas or areas that need to be strengthened for structural reasons.
What equipment do you have?
My current routine looks like this:
A-
Hip AD
Hip AB
Leg Press
Rowing Torso(rear delt)
Chest Press
Pulldown
B-
Calf
Leg Curl
leg extension
10 degree fly
Overhead Press
Pullover
c-
Bicep
Tricep
Neck Flexion
back Extensio
neck extension
neck and shoulder(shrug)
All equipment is either Med-X or retrofitted and re engineered Nautilus.
I rotate between the three and if I’ve had an especially rough week that compromises my recovery, I’ll substitute the A or B routines with the C routine. I’ve found that just skipping the whole thing altogether actually stalls my progress.
I hope this helps,
Al
<<>>
@ Doug & Rick
By caring for the organism are you saying for better muscle growth, bodyfat reduction or both?
John
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@ Doug & Rick
By caring for the organism are you saying for better muscle growth, bodyfat reduction or both?
John
I can’t speak for Doug, or for that matter, nearly as knowledgeably, but I think he was referring to muscle growth, however, by extension, the idea is that a healthier body, will make better progress, so proper diet, sleep, etc all contributes to that.
If you read some of the old Darden books, and some quotes by Arthur Jones, they would say things like Sergio Oliva growing on pizza and coca cola to show how little nutrition mattered… but spending all this time on proper protocols etc for the stimulus,I think Doug is suggesting a better balance.
C’mon! What’s more balanced than pizza? It balnaces out my Intermittent Fasting just fine.LOL
Al
Doug
I wondering what web sites - Blogs do you visit that have been changing your views on the advantages of special type of diet? Maybe you could list them somewhere on your site.
Thanks
John
Doug, and others, I subscribed to Arthur Devany’s site… interesting views on diet, but even more so on fitness… anyone have any thoughts on his approach to exercise? brief, infrequent, (relatively) but no failure and some explosive stuff…
Had a 6 week layoff.
nautilus pullover add 30 seconds to same weight I used last
chin hold
compound leg press
Hi Doug,
I read Rick’s post noticed the mention fo the need for “variety”. Some authors will say variety for a runner, may be cycling or swimming.
What I think needs to be clearly defined is “variety”?
HIT principles Intensity, Brief and Infrequent.
We may change training protocols from time to time is this “variety” do we still achieve the same stimulus - “muscular inroading”, fatigue?
big 5 at Gym at work:
Seated row - 50kg TUL 85s (seat 5)
Press - 30kg TUL 103s (seat 5)
Pulldown - 45kg TUL 150s
Chest press - 50kg TUL 100s
Leg press - 115kg TUL 139s (increase weight needed)
note I had to wait 4 minutes for the leg press while a fat man sat on it…..
On another topic. Does anyone have suggestions for leg work without a legpress or squat stands…. the context is that I sometimes train at home just with dumbbells. Press, rows, chest press etc are all OK. Even stiff leg deadlifts. But for legs I struggle to come up with a decent move. squats holding dumbells always irritate my back, lunges end up all about balance.
Any ideas?
What I still not understand is why variety should work.
According to the HIT logic, muscles contract against a load. If the load exceeds a certain threshold, the muscle will adapt by becoming stronger and sometimes bigger.
Now, many people say that if you do the same movement for too long, the body will adapt to that movement such that there won’t be any further improvement.
So if the body adapts to a movement, the muscle stops adapting?
But why should this be? What is changing when we don’t change our movements? And why should a different movement trigger new growth?
Maybe, the positive effect of variety is a psychological one:
Let’s say you start with a new movement. Initially, you will choose a sub-optimal weight and your TUL will be long. You feel rewarded, because next time you can increase the weight. But not because you have gotten stronger, but because of the sub-optimal weight. During the next weeks the same will happen: You will increase your weight, until your muscles are optimally loaded. At the same time, you adapt to the cardiovascular stress which gives you the impression that the movement becomes easier. But at one point you have reached the optimal load for your muscles and all weight increments will be due to strength increases. But since muscle growth is slow, these increments will be much slower than before. Of course this is deeply frustrating in the light of the big increments we could do in the previous weeks.
If we now switch to a new exercise, we start again with a sub-optimal load, because we are not accustomed to the movement and we use a different set of auxiliary muscles. We will again be rewarded by large weight increments, until we reach the point of optimal load, where our progress slows to the speed of muscle growth.
Am I mislead?
Great comment above, Marc.
Everyone searching for benifits from using the “Muscle Confusion” principle as it has been called. Should probably have a basesline program they can go back and perform periodically to enable some measure of comparison. They may find variey is all they’ve been achieving, or that the changes have in fact brought about increases.
Muscles contract - people get bored. I’m guilty of this statement. There’s only so many exercises you can perform. However, I will play around with rep speed, forced reps, stage reps, shorter/longer tuls, etc.
Sure wish someone would answer Marc’s question about always the same TUL, irrespective of weight used?
Chris H. asked about leg exercises with dumbbells at home? You said DB squats hurt your back? You want to keep your DB’s in an arm curl position, not straight to the sides? Just in case?
Here’s another one if you’ve got a well constructed drainboard in the kitchen? Get a well stitched backpack, and put weight in it. Do squats with arms on top of drain board. Like a ballerina with that rail and mirror? This exercise will also mimic pull downs, as in arms, pecs, and lats. A very “compound” movement?
Another leg exercise with backpack and strong drainboard… Here again, this is compound, upper and lower body? It’s sort of a “backward lunge”, with no ‘balance’ factor? It’s a takeoff on the way a ’senior citizen’ genuflects in a Roman Catholic church? Left hand on the drainboard. Right hand reaches down to right knee. Left leg lunges(?) slowly backwards, to touch knee to floor. Of course, one would do the opposite for the other side of the body? This compound works legs and gluts, but also the chest like dips.
Hope that helps for a dumbbell home leg effort? If you’re really strong, you might want to reinforce your drainboard with a 2×4? Also, if you’re really into heavy weights, make sure your backpack isn’t ‘rotted’ thread?
Chris H. I forgot? On those backward lunges, one isn’t “facing” the drainboard as in the ballerina squats. Your line of sight is parallel to the drainboard edge, either the left side or the right side…
November 13, 2009
1. Leg Extension: 208 lbs / 1:45
2. Leg Curl: 204 lbs / 1:38
3. Chest Press: 302 lbs / 1:38
4. Compound Row: 302 lbs / 1:30 + 1 Rest-Pause
5. Lateral Raise: 98 lbs / 1:05
6. Abdominal (NAUT): 110 lbs / 1:20
Duration: about 15 minutes
Jim V
re the db squats, are you proposing holding them at the shoulders as at the top of a curl?
I think variety is likely psychologically beneficial. I don’t know how beneficial it is physiologically-maybe not at all. But, our brains are connected to our bodies so what can you do. I don’t think the “need” for variety is a weakness-enjoying your workouts is a good thing if you can do it. If variety helps, so be it.
I personally inject variety by changing intensity techniques, body part sequence and do a different exercise now and then. I never abandon the basics however (except the bench press-I haven’t done it in years and have no desire to). Yesterday I did some Devany hierachical sets (15, 8, 4-but think of it as one big set) followed immediately by some john little (and Pete Sisco) power factor partials. It was great-a real burner.
By the way-anyone want to comment on progression as it related to aging. If you do BBS style workouts for 30 years-maybe from age 40 to 70 I cannot see how you are going to be stronger at 70 vs.40. Somewhere along the line your aging physiology is going to catch up, and your strength will go down (or will it?). I cannot see (although I have not trained too many people so I have no evidence) how you can continue to progress or even maintain a level of strength from youth to old age. If I’m right, this means progress will stop and reverse to some degree at some point. Any thoughts?
Chris,
Some people like ball squats for working legs at home. They keep your back in an upright position.
David
Fri 13.11. BIG 3 “rush factor”
1. Squat 15 reps
2. Deadlift 10 reps
3. Press 6 reps
I am not convinced on how much difference variety makes….yet… though Art Devany’s introductory essay when subscribing to his site, gives me food for thought…. I do however think that there can be downsides to over standardization and too great a focus on always measuring… which is… I think it is very difficult if not inevitable when we get overly concerned with a few extra seconds of tul, an extra rep, or an extra pound to not fall prey to slight compromises in form to achieve this, which at first may be very subtle, but continual subtle changes compounded over time, often result in an evolution of form that winds up being quite different than what you start with. At that point, I think we fall prey to the old principle that Jones wrote about in his very early writings… “demonstrating, rather than building strength”…. at the very least, I think an absolute minimum of variety is occasionally performing sets where one simply doesn’t measure anything, but just truly focuses on targeted muscle, perfect form, and “feeling” the workout…. I know there is speculation on whether a “burn” or “pump” actually contributes to growth or not, but conversely, we have to realize that tracking progression is a means to an end, and not an end in itself?
For Thomas’ question above… not just for people who work out for 30 years, but for anyone, simple math dictates that endless progression is impossible, otherwise we would all wind up breaking world records over time…. if you add as little as 1 lb to an exercise as infrequenty as every 14 days, you would add over 100 lbs in 5 years… 200 lbs in 10 years, and 300 lbs 15 years, etc. Obviously this is not going to happen with any upper body exercises and virtually no lower body exercises… which goes back to my earlier comment about doing sets where we simply don’t measure but internalize more.
Finally, Art DeVany’s comments about not going to failure are interesting… and I think what is often forgotten is that, to the best of my knowledge, Jones never stated that failure was an actual requirement, but rather that less than failure was all that could be measured accurately, and that by going to failure, you ensure that you’ve passed the threshold needed for effectiveness.
However, if one measures progress by the mirror, and or in the case of an athlete, performance in chosen sport, (and remaining injury free) then one could conclude effectiveness over time?
obviously above, I meant to say “failure was that could be measured accurately” and not “less than failure”…. sorry should have proofread…
@All,
Great comments on variety and progression. Tomorrow will be a new WOW post, but we should try to keep this discussion going.
Re: variety, I think there may be certain genotypes that rely more on neuromotor optimization in their strength gains, and these people must mix it up a little (or a lot) to get the adaptation to shift more toward muscle growth rather than enhanced motor unit firing frequency/coordination etc. Likewise there are others that seem to experience a shift toward hypertrophy only after motor unit efficiency/coordination has been maximized through prolonged standardization. The big trick is figuring out (honestly) which type you are…especially since it may be different amongst different muscle groups within the same person.
Re: how to inject changes, remember from the writings of Jones/Darden that motor skills are very specific and are befuddled more by small changes than they are by large changes. So perhaps getting the most change from variety might involve a period of standardization followed by a minor change (change seat position by one notch, or slight alteration of ROM that changes the location of a sticking point) so the skill set is maximally befuddled.
@Chris- try pre-exhausting with a static wall squat. Knees and hips both at 90 degrees with your back against a wall. Hold position as long as you can. When you can no longer hold position, then do DB squats. Very light DB’s (or none) should get the job done.
Let’s keep the thoughts coming on tomorrow’s WOW post.
Doug McGuff
Thanks Doug.
I’ve just received Bill DeSimone’s Movement Arm Exercise book and interestingly I see that he recommends the static wall squat as an appropriate thigh exercise (and also split squats)
thanks again
..I meant Moment Arm Exercise
WOW
1) Heavy Duty Power Twister
slow reps to failure
while sitting in the seat of a Nautilus Decline press & then
immediately placing the HDPT in my lap while simultaneously leg pressing 250 lbs for proper
2) pre-exhaust decline press of 13 reps.
I have found Richard Winnett’s(Master Trainer) musings on variety interesting and valuable. His supposition is that using the same exercises over a training career one can have an almost infinite amount of variety by directing the effort in a much more focused manner.
Chris H., exactly, DB’s tucked by chest and shoulders. Like Doc D said, static wall probably a good start? Then lighter weights, if any, at curled arm squats? You might find you can’t hold enough weight at the curled position; so doing those wall squats should sufficiently fatigue and get to the big motor units; when you finally use lighter DB weight in regular squats? You were complaining about ‘low back pain’ in the DB squats, right? I think, not an expert; but I believe holding those DB’s straight armed at the sides has a lot to do with that pain?
Dr Mcguff. I have your book and have been lifting according to hit principles for years. I was never really able to gain a lot of strength in my legs until i read Mike Mentzer. I concluded years ago I have really low recovery ability,particularly with legs and gradually spsced out leg workouts over the years to keep making progress. I currently do 1 exercise a week only. Bench press 1st wk,then lat pulldowns next week and alternating between these 2. Every 6 workout I add in deadlifts which totally wipes me out for about 5 days.Am I kidding myself. I literally do not make progress on legs unless I take about 42 days between workouts. Also my cardio does suck even tho i’m pretty strong. Should i be doing some form of aerobics every 4 days or so? Also my wife is quite overweight and I’m helping her work out weekly using Body by Science.Would she benefit from aerobics of some kind or would that be too much work for her. ? We are both 50 yrs old if that makes a difference.
First BBS workout in about six months.
Did the following:
Dumbell incline presses
Standing curl
lateral raise
tricep extension
dumbell squats
incline leg raises
I walked in to take a suana, and ended up working out before. Next weeek I’ll be more organized.