Fri 16 Jan 2009
Stanford Running Study=Taleb’s Health Club for Rats
Posted by John Little under Uncategorized
The other day John Little forwarded me a study from Stanford that concluded that running promoted longevity and preserved functional ability in older age. He asked me to comment on the study which you can view below:
Running slows the aging clock, Stanford researchers find
By ERIN DIGITALE
STANFORD, Calif. — Regular running slows the effects of aging, according to a new study from the Stanford University School of Medicinethat has tracked 500 older runners for more than 20 years. Elderly runners have fewer disabilities, a longer span of active life and are half as likely as aging nonrunners to die early deaths, the research found.
“The study has a very pro-exercise message,” said James Fries, MD, an emeritus professor of medicine at the medical school and the study’s senior author. “If you had to pick one thing to make people healthier as they age, it would be aerobic exercise.” The new findings appear in the Aug. 11 issue of the Archives of Internal Medicine.
When Fries and his team began this research in 1984, many scientists thought vigorous exercise would do older folks more harm than good. Some feared the long-term effect of the then-new jogging craze would be floods of orthopedic injuries, with older runners permanently hobbled by their exercise habit. Fries had a different hypothesis: he thought regular exercise would extend high-quality, disability-free life. Keeping the body moving, he speculated, wouldn’t necessarily extend longevity, but it would compress the period at the end of life when people couldn’t carry out daily tasks on their own. That idea came to be known as “the compression of morbidity theory.”
Fries’ team began tracking 538 runners over age 50, comparing them to a similar group of nonrunners. The subjects, now in their 70s and 80s, have answered yearly questionnaires about their ability to perform everyday activities such as walking, dressing and grooming, getting out of a chair and gripping objects. The researchers have used national death records to learn which participants died, and why. Nineteen years into the study, 34 percent of the nonrunners had died, compared to only 15 percent of the runners.
At the beginning of the study, the runners ran an average of about four hours a week. After 21 years, their running time declined to an average of 76 minutes per week, but they were still seeing health benefits from running.
On average both groups in the study became more disabled after 21 years of aging, but for runners the onset of disability started later.
“Runners’ initial disability was 16 years later than nonrunners,’” Fries said. “By and large, the runners have stayed healthy.”
Not only did running delay disability, but the gap between runners’ and nonrunners’ abilities got bigger with time.
“We did not expect this,” Fries said, noting that the increasing gap between the groups has been apparent for several years now. “The health benefits of exercise are greater than we thought.”
Fries was surprised the gap between runners and nonrunners continues to widen even as his subjects entered their ninth decade of life. The effect was probably due to runners’ greater lean body mass and healthier habits in general, he said. “We don’t think this effect can go on forever,” Fries added. “We know that deaths come one to a customer. Eventually we will have a 100 percent mortality rate in both groups.”
But so far, the effect of running on delaying death has also been more dramatic than the scientists expected. Not surprisingly, running has slowed cardiovascular deaths. However, it has also been associated with fewer early deaths from cancer, neurological disease, infections and other causes.
And the dire injury predictions other scientists made for runners have fallen completely flat. Fries and his colleagues published a companion paper in the August issue of the American Journal of Preventive Medicineshowing running was not associated with greater rates of osteoarthritis in their elderly runners. Runners also do not require more total knee replacements than nonrunners, Fries said.
“Running straight ahead without pain is not harmful,” he said, adding that running seems safer for the joints than high-impact sports such as football, or unnatural motions like standing en pointe in ballet.
“When we first began, there was skepticism about our ideas,” Fries said. “Now, many other findings go in the same direction.”
Fries, 69, takes his own advice on aging: he’s an accomplished runner, mountaineer and outdoor adventurer.
Hanging on his office wall is a photo he jokingly describes as “me, running around the world in two minutes.” In the dazzling image of blue sky and white ice, Fries makes a tiny lap around the North Pole.
Fries collaborated with Stanford colleagues Eliza Chakravarty, MD, MS, an assistant professor of medicine; Helen Hubert, PhD, a researcher now retired from Stanford, and Vijaya Lingala, PhD, a research software developer.
The research was supported by grants from the National Institute of Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin Diseases and by the National Institute on Aging.
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John asked me to comment on the researchers’ conclusions, but I find commenting on the methods more illustrative of what is wrong with this study. This study incorporates a very common thinking error that leads many of us to improper conclusions. It involves embracing a type of bias called survivorship bias. The methodological flaw in this study is there is no randomization. The subjects in the experimental group were long-standing runners who were active runners at age 50. The study ignores the “graveyard” of people who used to run but quit before they turned 50 because of injury or illness that could have been related to the “treatment” being studied. The study also fails to recognize that the strong survivors are still actually weakened by the activity logging less running time and being more debilitated (though less debilitated than those that self-selected themselves to “the graveyard”). Author Nassim Taleb discusses this concept in his book The Black Swan under the heading A Health Club for Rats. Since Taleb covers the topic so much more elegantly than I could ever hope to, I will quote excerpts below.
…”I came across an article discussing the mounting threat of the Russian Mafia in the United states…The article explained their toughness and brutality as a result of their being hardened by their Gulag experiences. The Gulag was a network of labor camps in Siberia where criminals and dissidents were routinely deported…Many deportees did not survive these labor camps.
Hardened by the Gulag?The sentence jumped out at me as both profoundly flawed (and a reasonable inference). It took me a while to figure out the nonsense in it since it was protected by cosmetic wrapping; the following thought experiment will give the intuition. Assume you’re able to find a large, assorted population of rats: fat, thin, sickly, strong, well-proportioned, etcetera…With these rats you build a heterogeneous cohort…You bring them to my laboratory…and we put the entire collection in a large vat. We subject the rats to increasingly higher levels of radiation. At every level of radiation, those that are naturally stronger (and this is the key) will survive; the dead will drop out of your sample. We will progressively have a stronger and stronger collection of rats. Note the following central fact: every single rat, including the strong ones will be weaker after the radiation than before.
An observer endowed with analytical abilities, who probably got excellent grades in college, would be led to believe that treatment in my laboratory is an excellent health-club experiment, and one that could be generalized to all mammals (think of the potential commercial success). His logic would run as follows: Hey, these rats are stronger than the rest of the rat population. What do they seem to have in common? They all came from that Black Swan guy Taleb’s workshop. Not many people will have the temptation to go look at the dead rats.
Next we pull the following trick on The New York Times: we let these surviving rats loose in New York City and inform the chief rodent correspondent of the newsworthy disruption in the pecking order in the New York rat population. He will write a lengthy (and analytical) article on the social dynamics of New York rats that includes the following passage: “Those rats are now bullies in the rat population. They literally run the show. Strengthenedby their experience in the laboratory of the reclusive (but friendly) statistician/philosopher/trader Dr. Taleb they…”
Dr. Taleb’s analysis of this article perfectly parallels the flaws in this study. The study selected long-standing runners who were fairly advanced in age and only then began any longitudinal followup. In essence only the stronger rats who had already survived significant radiation doses were followed. The author himself is a dedicated runner and endurance athlete, which could even compound the selection bias and the author’s own blindness to it. Even more importantly, this sort of bias is most profound when the supposed beneficial intervention is most harmful. This has been born out in many recent drug cases where medicines that were supposed to improved long-term functioning in survivors and then later investigations of the raw data found that the drug was simply killing the patients with more severe disease, making their survivors appear healthier. I won’t mention what drugs this has happened with, because you saw what happened to Dr. Richard Kimball (played by Harrison Ford) in the movie The Fugitive.
Once again, Nassim Taleb drives this point home much more clearly than I in the quote below:
“There is a vicious attribute to the bias: it can hide best when its impact is largest. Owing to the invisibility of the dead rats, the more lethal the risks, the less visible they will be, since the severely victimized are likely to be eliminated from the evidence. The more injurious the treatment, the larger the difference between the surviving rats and the rest, and the more fooled you will be about the strengthening effect.
The cognitive errors in this study are so bad that (in my opinion) it should not have passed peer review and been published. It is always fun to look at a studies funding source. In this case The National Institute of Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin Diseases. This institute exists becauseof the existence of arthritis and musculoskeletal disorders. In BBS we cite studies that show running increases the risk of arthritis, musculoskeletal disorders and skin cancer. While not a conscious deception I’m sure, this does seem kind of like the dentist that gives out lolly pops to kids after their appointments. In conclusion, I told John that this study may well prove exactly the opposite of what it suggests. To any readers of BBS, I would suggest reading Dr. Taleb’s Fooled by Randomness, and The Black Swan. Both books highlight cognitive errors that are common in research and that can lead your training astray.
Doug McGuff, MD
12 Responses to “ Stanford Running Study=Taleb’s Health Club for Rats ”
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[...] Nassim Taleb, as quoted in this BodybyScience.net post. [...]
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[...] I’m sure we can come up with many other attributes here, but you get the point. Just as overcompensation in too narrow a focus can negatively affect one’s overall fitness level, so too can overcompensation in fitness, as a whole, negatively affect one overall health assessment. To illustrate this point, think of the competitive athlete – or one who trains like a competitive athlete. This, of course, is not to say that competitive athletes are by the very nature of their lifestyles, unheathy, but to point out that that the competitive environment forces an athlete to continually redline the risk/trauma tachometer. This is where we get into the notion, posited by Nassim Taleb (and cited often by Dr. Doug McGuff), of the graveyard survivors (here and here). [...]

Research could tell me that cutting off my nose will prevent me from ever catching a cold (or fill in your own nonsense) but I tend to take direct experience as more valid over everything I read.
Personal experience: In my mid 20s I went on a crazy low-fat, low calorie, high carb diet after reading a Susan Powter book. Stop the Insanity?! What a laugh! I started walking for hours a day then got into tons of skating, biking and eventually, running. I’ve never done so much damage to my body in that 3 years of craziness compared to most of my years overweight and sedentary.
Fast forward to today. I’ve committed myself to a low-carb diet with whole foods and I’m only doing a HIT style lifting program twice a week. I’ve never felt better than I ever have in my life and the fat is coming off while I’m getting stronger at each workout.
Now, if a doctor tells me when I’m 80 that I need to start running to be “healthy” I’m going to scoff in his face and head off to the gym to do some heavy leg presses and go home to a juicy steak on the grill instead of a glass of Ensure.
Keep up the great blog, I look forward to future entries and I’m a fan of your work. I’ve not gotten around to getting your new book (unemployed at the moment, darn it) but it’s on my list when I’m employed once again. Thank you for all your efforts to educate the masses!
Genes remember sugar hit: Australian research
1-16-09
SYDNEY (AFP) – Human genes remember a sugar hit for two weeks, with prolonged poor eating habits capable of permanently altering DNA, Australian research has found.
A team studying the impact of diet on human heart tissue and mice found that cells showed the effects of a one-off sugar hit for a fortnight, by switching off genetic controls designed to protect the body against diabetes and heart disease.
“We now know that chocolate bar you had this morning can have very acute effects, and those effects can continue for up to two weeks,” said lead researcher Sam El-Osta, from the Baker IDI Heart and Diabetes Institute.
“These changes continue beyond the meal itself and have the ability to alter natural metabolic responses to diet,” he told Australian Associated Press Friday.
Regular poor eating would amplify the effect, said El-Osta, with genetic damage lasting months or years, and potentially passing through bloodlines.
The study’s findings were reported in the Journal of Experimental Medicine.
Very interesting article!
I must be pretty unique. From Sept 76 till Mar of 85, I ran over 20 marathons and 8 ultra-marathons. I trained Arthur Lydiard style and at virtually a completely Pritikin diet, tons of carbs, if you will. My training runs for the ultras (Old Dominion 100 mile) ranged from a short of 10 to a long run of 34. I have a PB at the 50 mile distance of 7 hours and 40 plus minutes in 1981 on a flat, out/back course of 5 mile segments. During those years, my body weight varied slightly from 142 w/ a BF% water immersion determined that varied between 7.6 to 9.8 (but who was counting
I suffered exactly one running related injury, a blow left hamstring while on a 21 mile run that consisted of alternating 1 mile intervals of 6:15/mile with recovery of 1 mile at about 10′/mile. The blown hamstring happened following a “stretching” session. I quit running because I burned out of it.
Since Mar of 2000 I have been training with John Wood of Final Results Fitness, always HIT, with varying protocols, most recently using a Rest/Pause scheme of 2″P/10″N/10″ rest. This AM I weight 169.6 and BF% of 10.2.
At 70 years 8 months of age, my cycling HR max is a measured (Suunto T6) of 186 in Sept of last year, my C2 rower measured is 174 in Nov of last year. RHR varies between 54 and 62.
As with all endeavors, there are exceptions reckon
tony
Dr. Semone,
Your prior ultra-endurance experience proves you are more resiliant than the average “rat”. The tricky thing is that a lot of the potential injuries are not acute, but may not express themselves until much later. Sometimes it is a “straw that breaks the camel’s back” scenario and this may be the case with your hamstring.
I’m certain that under John’s supervision you will continue to get stronger and never blow out your hamstring, or anything else for that matter.
Doug McGuff, MD
Dr. McGuff,
I completely agree!! I can’t believe I used to do all that running, although I can say that the community of runners provided quite an exceptional social outlet. You’d've though we’d've learned though. We (I) ran with Jim Fixx in an Erie (PA) 10k and then afterward went to a local runners home and kicked back w/ a bunch of Brewski’s. A more affable, open, dear guy would be hard to find. He dropped dead soon thereafter. What a loss.
keep up the good work; if we’re lucky, Drew will put on an HIT in Orlando and we can all hang out again.
take care,
tony
This is where strength training wins hands down over aerobics, especially running.
Strength training can be performed in a manner (HIT) where it has very little negative effect the body’s joints and connective tissues.
There are 2 elements that contribute to this in my opinion.
1. Smooth, controlled movements. Great care is taken as opposed to just aimlessly banging out reps. You can be rough on your muscles, but kind and gentle to your joints. It’s perfect.
2. Low volume and frequency. That’s half the deal with running. It’s not so much the impact force as the cumulative impact force resulting from frequent running over many years. With HIT if you don’t do much, and you don’t do it too often. This means you an keep on doing all your life with no ill effects.
The idea that health is all about the condition of your heart, and the only way to sort that out is running is just plain misleading.
To be honest what foods you eat and what foods you avoid has far more bearing on your health than running or HIT ever will.
When I first spoke to John Little regarding the Stanford Running Study “Reduced Disability and Mortality Amoung Aging Runners:A 21-year Longitudinal Study” by Eliza Chakravarty,MD,MS et al.,Archives of Internal Medicine,Vol. 168,No.15;Aug11/25;1638-1646 it was big news on CNN January 2009 as Dr.Gupta reported on the “benefits of long term running”. I agree with the excellent comments by Doug McGuff posted on this website and will make some additional comments. Not only does Doug make some excellent points about the methodology but in addition to this if you look at the methods section you would see that 254 out of 538 runners (47.2%) dropped out of the study. To make matters worse 267 of the 423 controls (63.1%) dropped out of the study. How any meaningful results could be obtained with almost a 50% dropout rate in the “treatment group” and nearly 2/3 of the controls is beyond my comprehension. This would never pass statistical scientific srutiny.
Thanks to Doug McGuff for suggesting obtaining reading material re: the Black Swan. I would also suggest an excellent book to review scientific studies by Ben Goldacre entitled “bad science”. Ben is a brilliant British physician who really understands good science such as John Little and Doug McGuff have put forward in their excellent “Body by Science” publication.
Keep up the excellent work
Sincerely
John
John R.Cripps MD,FRCSC
Doug,
Thanks again for recommending Taleb’s books. They’ve made it much easier to recognize the thinking errors in both research and those responsible for many popular misconceptions about exercise.
I sympathize with the arguments against running, but sitll nobody has answered the question why the Tarahumara Indians still run 20-30 Miles a day without getting injured or die prematurely. I think the reason is that that they have a very different attitude towards running: they always smile, they are relaxed, they have enough oscillation (rhythmic stress and recovery). They run in fractals compared to lineair running of those people with these serious faces….