W.O.W. 10/27/13-The Trash Compactor

My most recent WOW was the “legs” portion of my 5 way split.  I am still amazed at how well this is working for me.  However, I have been in this game long enough to realize that it is not THE way.  Others without my genetic profile and life circumstances might find it extremely lacking.  But for me, the results are astounding.  This workout was a case-in-point.  I have a love/hate relationship with my MedX leg press.  I love its biomechanics and the way the footplate moves away and down simultaneously, effecting a great stimulation for the hip and buttocks.  However, to acquire this effect, you have to gap out the weight stack to 4 or 5 holes.  This gets the foot position a little lower at the lower turnaround and allows for a hard end-stop when the rubber stopper on the four-bar linkage come into contact.  The down side of this set up is that it necessitates riding the seat carriage forward so that you are parked between the two weight stack headers.  Add a good heavy weight to push against out of the bottom, and a hard end-stop which won’t allow you to lock your knees and what you get is…..a trash compactor.


Every time I get into my MedX leg press, I am reminded of this scene from Star Wars.  However, this time was different.  I knew I was going to be well-recovered, so I decided to use a weight that is in my “heavy” range (those quotation marks are for you David) gapped out at 4 holes.  I pinned 360 on each stack.  I began the set and immediately felt something was wrong.  This was way too light.  I completed 2 reps and released the seat carriage to double check my settings.  I decided to up it to 380 both sides (760 total).  Still felt easy after 2 reps.  Finally, I went up to 420 per side (840 total) gapped at 4 holes.  I ended up completing 10 reps!  At least for now, I seem to have stumbled on the fact that my body operates on a more protracted time scale.  The rest of the workout was equally as remarkable.

Calf Exercise on MedX leg press (entire stack)

MedX Abdominal (really to give some respite before going to leg press)

MedX leg press (see above)

TSC leg curl (done sitting at edge of pullover seat, with belt and heels on foot pedal-works great)

TSC leg extension (done sitting back on pullover seat, with seat belt, shins under footpedal, padded with yoga blocks)

I have really been enjoying the discussion on augmenting performance of exercise with feedback.  This topic is equally as controversial in many fields.  In emergency medicine we struggle with how to teach the motor skills of difficult procedures such as tracheal intubation, cricothyrotomy, thoracotomy, chest tubes etc.  In the fields of athletics, how to provide feedback to optimize skill acquisition is also very controversial.  In BMX racing, the gate start is the most complex motor skill that needs to be developed in order to be successful.  I attended many clinics with real-time professional instruction.  None of these clinics could compare to the value of setting up a video-camera to record my performance, which I then reviewed immediately after carrying out the skill.  I could see instantly what was wrong and corrected it on the very next try.  I came further in 10 minutes of video review than I had in a decade of attending clinics.  Research in motor learning seems to suggest that “terminal” feedback is the most valuable.  In other words, regardless of modality the feedback seems most valuable when it is reviewed immediately AFTER the skill is executed.  I have noted that monitoring my form in a mirror while training is worse than useless, but seeing video of my training is very instructional.  I have no doubt that human instruction as well as ongoing “heads up” feedback devices can enhance training.  I am certain that project X will provide real value.  I hope that the performance can also be stored for review after the performance.  I suspect a combination of real-time performance monitoring (both human and computer) coupled with performance review shortly after completion of the set or session will prove valuable.  At least that is what the literature suggests.

J Mot Behav. 2013;45(6):455-72. doi: 10.1080/00222895.2013.826169. Epub 2013 Sep 5.

Terminal feedback outperforms concurrent visual, auditory, and haptic feedback in learning a complex rowing-type task.


SensoryMotor Systems Lab, ETH Zurich & Spinal Cord Injury Center, University Hospital Balgrist , Zurich , Switzerland.


ABSTRACT Augmented feedback, provided by coaches or displays, is a well-established strategy to accelerate motor learning. Frequent terminalfeedback and concurrent feedback have been shown to be detrimental for simple motor task learning but supportive for complex motor task learning. However, conclusions on optimal feedback strategies have been mainly drawn from studies on artificial laboratory tasks with visual feedback only. Therefore, the authors compared the effectiveness of learning a complex, 3-dimensional rowing-type task with either concurrent visual, auditory, or haptic feedback to self-controlled terminal visual feedback. Results revealed that terminal visual feedback was most effective because it emphasized the internalization of task-relevant aspects. In contrast, concurrent feedback fostered the correction of task-irrelevant errors, which hindered learning. The concurrent visual and haptic feedback group performed much better during training with the feedback than in nonfeedback trials. Auditory feedback based on sonification of the movement error was not practical for training the 3-dimensional movement for most participants. Concurrent multimodal feedback in combination with terminal feedback may be most effective, especially if the feedback strategy is adapted to individual preferences and skill level.

Post your WOW’s and your thoughts.

433 thoughts on “W.O.W. 10/27/13-The Trash Compactor”

  1. Jeff,

    As usual, you provide interesting information and I greatly enjoy reading your posts. Clearly you have a passion for this.

    Here’s where I part ways with you guys. You can come up with all the data in the world, but it’s meaningless insofar as producing better physiques.

    I’ll switch gears and please forgive the analogy, but I think it’s pertinent.

    A 357 Mag is considered the gold standard in terms of “stopping power” and on paper this makes sense. But a 45ACP is preferred by 10 out of 10 combat vets. Why? Because it was tested and it proved tried and true during the moro uprising.

    A 357 Mag has a lot of kinetic energy, but if a 45ACP hits someone – nearly EVERY ounce of energy from that 45 is going to transfer to the unfortunate subject, coupled with a very large wound channel, it’s going to be a bad day for whoever is in the way.

    My point, specs are important and have their use, but they cannot replace real world experience and application.

    Lower friction equipment would definitely have potential benefits, but how far do you have to go with this?

    Sorry for the lengthy rant – enjoying your explanations.

  2. @Matt

    Not sure where the “you guys” is coming from? Or why the reference to 10/10 and long durations in a discussion about friction?

    I asked a couple questions and challenged your example…but no where did I give opinion one way or another about the difference friction makes. However, you made fairly bold claims.

    In an earlier comment (last page) you said BBS needs iconoclastic folks and challenge is required for scientific method. Apparently you don’t feel the same need for you to be challenged and folks should just accept your claims as fact?

    My questions were fair and your further explanation was enough to add perspective for those following. There was no need for the off-topic jabs at “10/10 and long durations” (whatever the hell that means) and certainly no reason to lump me into others opinions on this topic.

  3. Matt,

    You said “Lower friction equipment would definitely have potential benefits, but how far do you have to go with this?”

    I am not sure I fully understand your question.

    We do agree that lower friction equipment has potential benefits. Sounds like if you had two identical machines to choose from — with the exception of one having 3% friction and the other having 1% friction you would choose the 1% friction machine to train on.

    Given that….

    What is wrong with pursing equipment with reduced friction/stretch and flex? And to really do so, at this point one needs to benchmark and not base everything just on feel.

    Personally, I don’t want to talk about machine performance in terms of friction in general ways any more when it can be quantified even by angle and not an average number. A friction curve…

    Instead of using terms like “uber” low friction and so on put a number to it, a graph and what not instead of adjectives that everyone thinks of differently.

    Without benchmarking of the machines or quantifying their performance and having people relate that data to feel and results who knows how far one should go or choose to go in terms of a rolling and static friction number levels.

    Further with out benchmarking, how can one really know how well their design performed and see the effect of new ideas. Doing it all on feel has too many issues from a design standpoint. Expectation bias is an issue that benchmarking helps get rid of.

    Part of Project X is coming up with benchmarking — less bias.

    To answer your question in a descriptive way… I would like to go far enough that the machine feels like the load is coming from a bar. I am not sure of the level of friction and stiffness the machines has to have to get that kind of feel yet — where it really delivers the load and engages one like a bar.

    I would describe the difference between a stock MedX machine and one with linear bearings and added stiffness as feeling like someone took the training wheels off of an exercise bike. One is fearful they could drop the load. Not a feeling one gets from a stock machine. My muscles seem to tense up and contract more. But this is subjective and I have expectation bias. So my perception probably doesn’t mean much.

    Matt that was a longer ramble than yours.



  4. Matt,

    this discussion has been reduced to who has produced a better physique.lol…funny but ill play along.

    Matt you sure you want to play that card with me?

    like i said dumb convo…..

  5. “do you see anyone with a great build using 10/10 for long durations on this great equipment?”


    or check out OVERLOAD FITNESS Bodybuilding team on my web site or reference my bodybuilding talks.

    too funny when people pull this card, hilarious when a out of shape guy in his mid 30’s want to go here.

  6. @All,

    With the exception of one f-bomb and a few ad-hominem attacks, this thread has been very productive. The interaction between those with opposing viewpoints has been valuable and productive.

    David S,

    I am very relived to hear the outcome of you wife’s surgery.


    What you have shared saddens me beyond belief. As someone who has to deliver this kind of news regularly, I want to remind you and your son that sick does not equal dead. There is still life to be lived, and many young people without brain tumors will die tomorrow. Cherish every day with him.


    I will now post a new WOW. I will make it a topic that will hopefully keep this thread rolling.

  7. Doug,

    Do you not notice that when Josh comes around – F bombs get dropped along with ad hom attacks?

    I’ll go on record – I can’t stand Josh. Josh, you are a major jerk.

    Might wanna check yourself about your conditioning. As poor of conditioning as I’m in, if I could have entered the contest I would have placed 2 behind you…some accomplishment.

    Your staff in great shape – okay. Hop in the car and go to Cleveland, then decide what kind of shape RenEx is in. But wait, you can squat 800lbs with a barbell right? Must be nice living in fantasy land.

    Josh is the reason this site goes south – time and time again. Mr. Mouth. Fortunately, less and less people care about what you have to say. Why don’t you stay on you paysite? – it must be doing great, I’m surprised you have time to pull yourself away.

    You like making things personal and for some reason Doug gives you a pass. You wont get it with me. I’m sure Hutchins takes great pride in partnering with such a class act as yourself – Mr. Universe

    I don’t normally say things like this, but I will towards you. I truly hope you fail. I don’t wish Ken anything bad and I still greatly admirer him for several reasons, but I have no respect for you whatsoever – like many others. We clear?

  8. Ha what a meltdown…got tired of being the nice guy? good i respect how you really feel more.

    But I’ll play along again.

    My condition? hmmmm….under 6% bodyfat, can you match it?

    No, you could not place two spots behind me because that is a pro heavyweight division at the Mr.Universe and you’d have to win a show to get there….that usually means beating 100’s of people.

    Just did a show and qualified for NPC NATIONALS….There were only 450 contestants in that one.

    Now… I’m 42 years old….in the shape of my life and a man of 35 years old in your condition has zero qualification to speak on my “condition”.

    I’m sorry you are so incredibly dissatisfied with your progress but its not my fault or Ken Hutchins fault…its your own….push the plate away.

    and yes David, all 10/10 And all on RenEX.


    I’m telling you guys, get ur own gig, try to make better at something, the hate will eat you alive, you’ll feel better when you stop and i can tell you for sure J.T. aint goin anywhere.


    Make meany Joshua go away….lol, ya’ll wouldn’t have anything else to do if i did and ya’ll can’t stop…..cyber stalkers.

  10. I’m not pleaing anything to Doug. The more you speak the more stupid you sound. So please, continue Mr intellectual giant.

    Any evidence of the superiority of your esoteric devices and methods yet? Didn’t think so…hope springs eternal

    You are living proof that cults still exist. You proudly refer to yourself as such. Weird

  11. Thanks Doug,we are relieved here too. We have been together for 30 years. She gets more pretty and I love her more everyday.

    My wife has some follow up,she probably needs more surgery.She has a gall stone on top of getting the mass removed. She is tough as nails,never complains. She is just an awesome woman.

    When we used to train together, she can and will train very hard. She can dish it out and she can take it. :)

  12. awww…..Matty, don’t be a sad guy.

    I do thank you for the fuel, i love when people bet against me….

    Personally i don’t thrive on seeing anyone fail….that would suck, i feel very bad for you.

    Come on man be better….do better

  13. Jeffrey Muehl says:
    November 13, 2013 at 7:13 am

    I have often felt that increasing the weight on some machines, like the MedX LP actually makes the exercise easier in some ways…

    Add weight, belt stretch more and now one has a new and easier start position. Weight increases change many factors in the exercise and don’t necessarily just make the exercise harder…

    Even if the machine was rock solid, a person body will bend more with increased loads changing the exercise and leverage on the load…




    With all due respect…….

    Progressive resistance is a given….self evident.

  14. Dave S

    im glad to hear your positivity. I honestly believe it can be healing.

    just like i believe these toxic monsters make themselves sick

  15. David Landau says:
    November 13, 2013 at 10:36 am
    Jeffrey: You went in the Right Direction with the 10 Degree.


    No he didn’t.

    A standing cable crossover would be better….gravity, freedom of movement. fuller range of movement….

  16. I’m happy.

    Just don’t want you to sucede by suckering anymore folks by your pt Barnum tactics. Don’t hope you fail as a person – just your current strategy of budiness/exercise. Problem/solution.
    I used to think this was beneath you.

  17. Thanks Josh

    Yes I believe im responsible for my own well being. If something is bothering me its my fault until I do something about it. Speaking for myself.

    One more thing I would like to say,has nothing to do with training but goes with some of the comments I made about my wife.

    It took a long time,but she turned a crazy psych that I was into a Macho Cream Puff.

    Thanks again for the positive thoughts.

  18. Matt,

    it is hard to believe you are an adult male….keep goin you chubby lil guy you…

    you are not happy ,you are miserable….guys that carry on like this for months and years have to be miserable….you have no point, no position, you dig yourself deeper with each post….it’s all emotional…it’s creepy ….i wonder what your wives or kids would think of you chasing another man around the interwebz? hoping and praying i fail….i can’t fail….any person who would get satisfaction from seeing someone fail is in a very dark place….you, David, Turpin and a number of others are truly some sick people.

    the epitome of losers….wanna be bullies….tell ya what bro you guys will never back me or RenEx down….weird ass creeps.

    i’m off to Denver to compete i’ll see ya next week with some hardware in hand…take care.

  19. Joe A says:
    November 13, 2013 at 7:04 am

    Jeffrey actually just brought up another point that could affect your evaluation of Ed’s ability to perfrom the eccentric at the end of his set…

    The machine itself. Most exercise equipment does not function the same with 1lbs. selected as it does with 500 lbs. How (or how much) it may affect user performance…I do not know. However, it must be considered.

    demonstrated to Ed and my team an experiment that illustrates how much I don’t understand about negatives. I did this using pop-pins. Started Ed on chest press at 480 to failure, then 360, then 240, then 180, then 120. By 120 he could not even initiate a single rep. Then immediately we pinned the ENTIRE stack and lifted the movement arm for Ed, whereupon he was able to control the entire stack through a 12 second negative



    A huge difference between the whole weight stack and 120 lbs.

    I don’t buy this logic….you’re not very convincing…try harder.

  20. Bryce says:

    November 13, 2013 at 5:17 am


    I honestly think the pure concentric group would gain more muscle. I think olympic lifting (as high risk/cost as it is) does a good job of optimizing muscular potential, and it’s pretty concentric dominant.

    With the sprint, I’m not seeing “plenty of eccentric” work.


    Eccentric activity abounds in all movement, especially sprinting. OL involves eccentric activity……as you might want to study more.

  21. Josh,

    OK bro. You gonna enter this next one pro or amateur?

    I’m the chubby lil guy and I’m filled with hate. Right

    I mean you don’t even understand what you say half the time.

    People who were talking to you trying to buddy up with you would email, text and call me dishing dirt on you and your team as soon as they hung up with you saying some pretty bad stuff and you said they should be let back on this forum. probably didn’t know that did you? You turn things personal and I could care less what you say anymore.

    There’s quite a few that aren’t up and up with you…I ain’t one of em though.

    Enjoy Denver

  22. Ed Garbe says:
    November 13, 2013 at 2:54 am

    “Most likely shows just how poorly regular reps taken to failure recruit fast twitch fibers. The non-recruited fast twitch fibers allow the whole weight stack to be eccentrically lowered for 12 seconds. What else could this be?”

    Good thought. Based on that, IYO what might be the option to regular reps?
    Just curious about that thought process.



    I don’t know for sure. No one else does either. I just like training heavy. Feels manly!

    I think rest pause heavy eccentrics are very good…..but no where near to failure. They are easy on recovery……much less metabolic shock…..much less respiratory activity….blood glucose much less likely to be disturbed. Eccentrics are therapeutic to tendons, and the for sure they remodel the skeletal system…..Wolff’s law. The old paradigms of negative training need to change. Experimentation is the key…..as I wish I could do a training session with everybody…..as I believe minds could be changed.

  23. Joe A says:
    November 13, 2013 at 6:00 am

    “Most likely shows just how poorly regular reps taken to failure recruit fast twitch fibers. The non-recruited fast twitch fibers allow the whole weight stack to be eccentrically lowered for 12 seconds. What else could this be?”

    That is QUITE a leap, don’t ya think? At best, IF your hypothesis is correct, it would show how poorly “whatever-the -hell-Ed-did” recruits fast twitch fibers…in no way can we reasonably assume your conclusion, based on that experience.

    Now, if you are simply looking for other things that likely factored in OTHER THAN your hypothesis…there are plenty.

    Someone already pointed out potential flaw of using compound exercise for this experiment.

    Additionally, you have to consider the impact of bracing/successive recruitment/substitution. These are not voluntary and they are unavoidable when encountering these heavy loads.

    Consider the role fascia plays in absorbing these loads and protecting the body from such a threat.

    Friction is a factor (how much…i don’t know).

    I am not saying you are wrong, Marc. I just think you are trying to view the scenario through a conclusion you’ve already drawn…

    Wordy paragraphs trying to discredit. Two problems…..

    1) Lack of facts
    2) lack of logic

    You should try harder…think!

  24. Matt,

    People are gonna talk and haters are gonna hate i know full well how people are behind my back…the cool thing is that this whole thing is so polarizing that they all reveal themselves.

    And i’ll tell you what i’ll go as far as i have to go….personal? you guys just can’t take ur own medicine.

    As far as the show gous i’m amateur in the NPC , The pro league is the IFBB, you know like Mr.Olympia and such….i have not obtained my IFBB Pro card YET, but its a goal of mine by age 46. You guys can sit around and feel good if i dont make it though.

  25. Marc: There was a Retrofit on the 10 Degree and I have tried it. It was an Improvement to said Machine – That’s All.

    And of Course: The Pot calling the Kettle Black. Beach Wear?

  26. Josh

    We can run this later.

    Detritus and distractions aside I wish you well and it would be nice to see you pick up your pro card as a hitter – whether or not you associate with hit. it’s hit and best wishes in your show.

  27. David Landau says:
    November 13, 2013 at 8:10 pm
    Marc: There was a Retrofit on the 10 Degree and I have tried it. It was an Improvement to said Machine – That’s All.

    And of Course: The Pot calling the Kettle Black. Beach Wear?

    Love to see some folks “STRIVEing”
    Might even motivate some to write an “anti”

  28. @David Landau and Joe A.,

    Fellas I’m not even in the same league as you two. I’ve had an interest in the realm of muscle building/strength training/bodybuilding since I was about 8 yrs. old. I have worked out off and on over the years, got some attention of others, felt stronger, etc. Over the past 10 yrs. or so I have had life stuff going on that I allowed to distract from any real significant consistency. In spite of that I still made some progress I guess. Please don’t take this as negative. I wouldn’t change anything about my past. I don’t view life that way.

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