Mon 7 May 2012
W.O.W. 5/5/12- On Site Consult: Hydration
Posted by Doug McGuff under Uncategorized
I worked out Saturday morning at UE. I did the shoulders/arms/leg press portion of my 2-way split. It was a great workout. Afterwards I performed on on-site consultation with a BBS follower from Denver. My WOW was as follows:
4 Way Neck (SuperSlow Systems)
MedX Overhead Press
Thick Bar Biceps Curl
Triceps Pushdown (J reps halves)
Thick Bar Wrist Flexion/Extension
Leg Press
It was a great workout, followed by a fun consult. The first part of the consult was spent discussing ways to eek out the most mass and ideal body composition. As usual, I tried to get the focus on the organism and recovery aspect of the equation and not as much on the stimulus side. Sleep, diet, supplementation, hormone optimizing strategies and hydration were emphasized. Indeed, I made the point that if all of these components are not optimized, it is best to avoid pushing the stimulus side of the equation, as it is likely to produce negative results. One of the major things I emphasized was hydration and its importance in hormone signaling. Without adequate cell hydration, the cell wall and its receptors are not pushed outward where they interface with the circulation and outer environment. Also, cytosolic fluid osmolality is important for proper intracellular signaling. So before you add some new intensity variable, try drinking at least 3 liters of water per day. See the following PubMed abstracts for more.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16734759
http//www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12696593
Post your WOW’s and your thoughts
Posting for John Wickenden:
Today’s was somewhat different from any previous one save last Friday when
> Norm Jones put me through a learning experience of “J Reps and Zone
> training”. We used low loads and got the routine sorted out at that time.
> Today used the new protocol for the workout and expect the exploratory
> phase will last another couple of workouts, but really like the concept
> and will find the loads that will truly fatigue the muscle in all 3 stages
> of the exercise. It is a most refreshing approach and referenced by Doug
> McGuff and Ed Garbe, how can you go wrong.
>
> The golf season is underway and there is absolutely no leg fatigue
> carrying the bag for 18 holes. Last weekend was fishing in Northern
> Quebec, and that entails portaging a canoe. Not a problem for me, but my
> peers need me to do that job now, BBS has made me stronger in a year and a
> half, and I know that trend will continue. So all you old 75 year olds
> take heart. Just start. If all we old f..ts have to do is fish and play
> golf, enhancement is guaranteed. Who could ask for anything more.
Mike Mentzer’s dvd “Underground Seminar” should be viewed at least several times by every serious trainee. Mr. Mentzer’s insight into overtraining is most valuable. Most of us, myself included, do to much at times.
WOW:
Hammer leg press
The other thing about adequate/super hydration is how good it makes you feel.
Re: John Wickenden post
John is truly a poster child for seniors that have done a lot of physical exercise/training but never really got into strength training….at least as we know it. Norm Jones and I descended on him on a trip I made to Montreal about 18 months ago. John was carrying a few extra pounds and was dealing with some post-medical issues. Basically the age fairy was creeping up on him quickly.
John is the eternal skeptic but after a long evening Norm and I finally got him to think about giving it a try (and buy dinner!). Norm gave him his copy of BBS and I recommended Paleo and before long it was all history.
John has responded fantastically both on his diet and strength training. The major benefit is John is a great outdoorsman and has really seen the enhancement in all his functional activities at 75! As you can see by his post he is truly starting his life all over again!
Just passing this on for some of you younger folks viewing the blog that many have moms and dads that may be of interest.
Excellent post.
Recently I have tried to experimentally estimate my personal factors of the stimulus and recovery parts in the equation.
I should say that I am in my 40s and I am what may be called a “hardgainer”, that is, it is very difficult for me to gain substantial amounts of weight (fat or lean).
So I experimented with
- intensity
- frequency
- training to failure or short of failure
In all cases, I did one set for each exercise of the Big 5, while measuring the TUL
Here are my personal conclusions, purely anecdotal of course and certainly not double-blind
1. if I train to failure, the shortest rest period that still yields increasing TUL is about 1 week
2. if I do not train to failure, but stop just short of it, I achieve better TUL increases that in 1, after only 2 days of recovery.
3. The required recovery time seems to be related to the size of the trained muscle. I can train my biceps every 3 days, but my legs need 2 weeks to recover, even if I stop short of failure.
4. Drinking lots of water improves recovery, in particular it reduces the general feeling of fatigue following an intense workout.
5. I need to exercise a muscle for at least 2:30 minutes. Otherwise, I will not be able to improve during the next session. This is true for light and for heavy weights.
My current schedule is
Sun: Big 5 workout
Mo: rest
Tue: rest
Wed: body weight exercises (mostly push-ups and dumbbells)
Thu: rest
Fri: body weight exercises
Sat: rest
Good reminder about drinking plenty of water.
In my case the extra 15 to 20 daily trips to the urinal are worth it.
My WOW
Nautilus 2 st Low Back
Medx Leg Press
Medx Pulldown
Medx Chest Press
Nautilus Abdominal
Isometric Neck Extension
WOW(5 am)
Rack bench press: 2 warm upsx3, 1 set to failure (6 reps).
Hammer leg press: 1 set to failure, 11 reps
Weighted chin; drop, body weight chin to failure.
Body weight dip: 1 set to failure
Hammer low row: 1 set to failure
Squat (20 total reps-required 2 sets)
Powertec press (on squat apparatus): 20 total reps-required two sets
Pull weeds in the front yard (not to failure)
Doug McGuff,
I have to admit I don’t get the uber water drinking strategy.
Maybe I’m missing something but when I’ve tried it before and as Dennis says, the result is multiple trips to the bathroom. Is this not a signal that the body just does not need this high level of hydration?
I have also been puzzled by the recommendation. I’d think that our bodies would have pretty good mechanisms for maintaining the proper level of cell hydration over a wide range of fluid intakes. Is there any evidence to indicate that drinking excess amounts of fluid does anything to increase cell hydration.
I’m reminded of the recent back tracking by the medical community on the value of decreasing sodium intake to control blood pressure. Some have observed that when you try to lower blood pressure by limiting sodium intake, your body responds by trying to conserve sodium. It does so to such an extent that sodium restriction usually has, at best, a minimal effect on blood pressure (or so some have claimed).
5/5/12
Nitro chest press: 210/58 8 reps
Nitro leg press: 480/81 16 reps
Nitro pullover: 190/54 7 reps
tricep press (single arm): 20lb R=8 L=9
incline bicep curls: 25×2=11
Skyler Tanner neck stretch
shrugs (no count)
single leg heel raise: 40lb R=13 l=11
As usual, all of these movements were performed through a narrow range of motion.
Not much new to report otherwise. Except that this was the second time in a 2.5 months that I’ve done a leg press. Its difficult to tell whether completely ignoring my legs is best, or working them infrequently. The knee held up well … no problems … yet. Still saving pennies for surgery.
Mark Alexander says my ARX Fit Omni machine ships off this week. Pretty stoked =D.
– Anthony
Oh, and Eric Daniels confirmed for the Austin 21 Convention. Woot!
WOW:
-Shin Raise
-Glutiator (aka Dynavec MD Hip Extension)
-Nitro Leg Press
-Weighted Chin
-Weighted Dip
-Nitro Rear Deltoid
-Nitro Pec Dec
WILDCARD!
-ARX Rest/Pause Hyper Romanian Deadlift
-20 rep breathing squat
If you think I didn’t have carpet time after this, you’d be mistaken. Hours later I still just want to lay around reading.
I’d like to again thank Doug for Saturday’s consult which was highly educative, most memorable - and yes, fun. Shout out to Ed Garbe for kindly orchestrating and rolling out the welcome mat to Seneca, SC.
Doug’s emphasis on the organism and recovery components of the S-O-R triad squarely addressed my needs to upgrade my overall lifestyle/training to the next level. Coupled with Doug’s notes, DVD on nutrition and correlating cell-function, there’s plenty of data to internalize and act upon.
While not losing sight of the above, the WOW was helpful in exploring more advanced techniques. In particular, Doug devised a pre-exhaust static-contraction for pull downs that affords greater adaptive headroom as I’d maxed this machine at my local SSZ facility.
I experienced a bit more soreness than usual during the subsequent 48 hrs, perhaps due to slightly differing mechanics of UE’s equipment (MedX & SS) vs. the Nautilus One I’m accustomed to.
Though thoroughly fatigued, carpet time wasn’t needed as Seneca is “swimming” in oxygen compared to Denver’s thinner mix.
Will post again upon further implementation of Doug’s “O” and “R” guidance.
@Skyler,
By WILD CARD do you mean you drew two exercises out of a hat to finish the workout? If so, drawing a 20 rep breathing squat and a deadlift variation would definitely put a frown on my face. Ouch. Carpet time to the max!
Brian, Craig,
No good studies to establish a given volume of water intake (except for Tim Noakes research that says thirst is reliable during exertion in heat). My reasoning is based on studies like the ones listed above, my clinical experience as a physician, and my personal experience of when I hydrate aggressively vs when I don’t.
WRT clinical experience, when hydration status is critical we monitor I and O’s (in and outs). We rely on urinary output matching IV input on a 1:1 basis before we consider the patient to be appropriately hydrated. Once this state is reached, it can be maintained by continuing IV fluids at about 1ml/kg/hr. We must keep in mind this formula is based on isotonic saline, not free water, but the concept still remains. Just because urine output increases, does not mean that hydration is not needed. Only when urine specific gravity drops quite low (1.005) and urinary output equals oral intake is it likely that intracellular fluid volume is optimal.
You are correct that we possess homeostatic mechanisms that should appropriately signal thirst. However, this homeostatic mechanism involves multiple pathways (aldosterone, anti-diuretic hormone, cAMP, renin-angiotensin etc.) and many of these overlapping pathways are messed up by modern lifeways and diet. If you actually push 3 liters of water per 24 hour period, you will find your thirst mechanism will work better and you will orient toward at least this much intake. Under certain pathologic conditions (liver failure or syndrome of inappropriate antidiuretic hormone secretion) this can go haywire and result in massive overconsumption of water and hyponatremia, but this is not a danger under normal conditions.
As the Most Interesting Man in the World Says: “Stay thirsty my friends”.
@Thomas
That’s correct; I give Mark the freedom to finish me however he wishes and that’s what he picked this week. Last week you can see it was negative bench press, pulldown, and chins.
Doug,
3 Litres per 24 hrs…..If we take out 8 hrs for sleep averages to 187 ml per hour for 16 hrs.
I spend a lot of time on the road and public facilities are often hard to find here in the UK. I may have to utilise some oversize Billy Connolly style incontinence pants to handle it
I love the wild card idea! I think I’ll use it.
Brian,
Once fully hydrated (as in my clinical example), for a 75kg person this would equal about 1800ml per 24 hr period. This might be more manageable for you and bypass the need for incontinence pants. Go for 3 liters over the weekend, then revert back to 1.5-2.0 range.
@Thomas
Understand that the finisher represents a response to both my performance during the workout and the finisher from the last workout. It’s a reflective wildcard, not “just cuz’.”
@Skyler,
Is the finisher chosen randomly? If so, how does the last workout finisher influence the current? Do you limit it to upper/lower body choices, depending on the workout emphasis? Obviously, if the client feels “destroyed” by the base workout a finisher isn’t going to do them any favors.
I tend do do things (workout things that is) just cuz’ I feel like it, although clients may not appreciate that.
Hi ,
Just saw that doug.Mc.Guffs podcast is available on the bulletproof site.Unfortunately I don’t have time to listen at the moment.
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@Thomas
It’s chosen randomly but reflects the workout and the preceding workout. For example last workout my wildcard exercises were all upper body negatives so this week it was lower body/posterior chain focused. If my workout was subpar Mark might not even have me wildcard. So yes, basically.
It’s also important to note that, once a month, I’ll be doing a Sickness-type workout. Deadlift/chin/dip focus for reps and drop sets. The only wildcard will be which beer is the finisher.
W.O.W:
smith machine incl.press
nautilus 2st.pullover
nautilus OME calves
nautilus OME shruggs
No carpet time but a feeling of deep muscular exhaustion and a twitching triceps from the pullover.
Had some time to listen to the bulletproof podcast although not in its totallity yet.Doug , by the way you answer questions (understandable for everyone willing to understand)you are bulletproof indeed regarding exercise.
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Amy’s WOW:
Nautilus pullover
Nautilus leverage seated dip
Hammer H-squat
Nautilus leverage row
Nautilus overhead press
@ Doug Mc.Guff,
Regarding the talk about heartbeat rate (bulletproof podcast)is it correct to say that the strokevolume increases because of a better blood return to the heart during high intensity work/strenght training? Also that because of the global metabolic conditioning the muscles are better capable to cope with the increasing demands and thus the demand on the heart will be less regarding heartbeat frequency?
I guess this will be the case when the workout is done with enough rest between sets but eventually with exercises done without rest between sets heartbeat will also rise high.
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WOW 12 May 2012
Hammer high row 220lbs 44s
Hammer Incline press 210 lbs 28s
Lifefitness leg press 48s
Hammer incline press dropdown 176lbs 30s
10 minutes run on treadmill
Assisted dips and chins
Deadlifts with reduced weight so that I target the deeper muscles and I also enjoy the metabolic aspect of it
Squats for the same reasons as the deadlift
@all
In terms of TUL and fatiguing the muscle fibers. Naturally I seem to favor lower TUL’s ( around the 40-60 second range). Longer than that and it doesn’t feel like I’m trying hard enough. I try and make up for any possible undertraining of slow and intermediate muscle fibers with dropdown sets.
I would be very interested to hear other people’s take on this.
@Efthymios,
I think you’d have to perform a significantly lower TUL (maybe 10 to 20 seconds, but I’m not sure) set to under-train slower twitch fibers. I’d be interested to hear others opinions on this however.
@Dr. McGuff,
Thanks for the great interview over at the Bulletproof Executive site. Sometimes I forget how good your knowledge and information is. Great delivery as well. Nice job.
Doug McGuff
Just listened to you podcast over at “Bulletproof”
Excellently presented, I was particularly interested in the stress, recovery and hormonal milieu explanations.
I have a question re the dead lift.
As someone who has experienced past injuries my antenna went up when you discussed the dead lift ( I use a trap bar to DL) and the potential exposure of the smaller muscles e.g. multifidus to excessive load after failure of the larger erectors when performing this exercise.
Therefore what would you recommend as the safest termination point of a set whilst still maintaing a training effect?
Brian F,
I would definitely observe “form failure”. When the superficial muscles begin to fade, you will lose the flat back and begin to round at the thoraco-lumbar area.
If you are ever going to be near Shreveport, LA I would arrange a deadlift tutorial from Doug Holland. Learning from him would be the gold standard for deadlift form.
Look at some of Doug’s videos. You will note a definite “reset” between sets (as opposed to a lower turnaround technique). Each rep is a performance unto itself. Never continue beyond the point where each performance is perfect.
Doug McGuff
Thanks I get that, and was about to post that I train alone and a form breakdown is not necessarily easy to detect.
But of course Doug H and others train alone and use the DL.
I trained the lift today, as you know it’s a great movement, the last but 1 rep was very hard, and the last one was all out to complete.
If you asked me if my form was perfect, honestly I would not be sure.
As stated I don’t want an injury to be the indicator.
Doug H,
If you are looking in, is there a definite signal that you rely on to let you know when form is dropping off?
WOW No. 85 - 09 May 2012
Male, age 34, 5′9″, 136 lbs.
Fasted state (previous meal ended ~11hrs prior)
7 days since last WOW
Db OHP 70 lbs
Barbell Bicep Curl 45
Straigth-Arm Pulldown 40
Chin-up BW
Tricep Pressdown 60
Dip BW
Myotatic Crunch 5
WOW duration = 10 minutes
Really good workout today! Left me feeling very motivated!
pulldown, standing cable chest presses, standing cable rows, cable deadlifts, cable calf raises
WOW (11th May) - Back & Biceps
Pull Ups
Reverse Flys
Bent Over Row
Lumbar Extension (static hold)
Bicep Curls
Pull Up (mainly negatives)
Odd sessions this one - the day before I was very pumped and felt like I could lift a car but held off one more day to make it a total of 5 days since the previous workout (chest, triceps, shoulders and core). Nevertheless, I felt relatively weak on workout day and all the weights felt rather heavy.
This could purely be a mental thing, but despite a extra day (which would surely mean more recovery) it was as if I had regressed.
Next session: 16th May - it will be after an induction session in my new gym. FINALLY getting back to proper machines as opposed to free weights…however this does mean I have to contend with other users which may mean waiting times
Adam,
I have experienced similar workouts in the past. Even more commonly, I have days where I feel tired and weak and then have a blockbuster workout. After 35 years of doing this stuff, I still cannot figure it out.
Adam
Yep, its that physiological milieu thing again
I have occasionally had outstanding workouts after what might be called a heavy night. …. I’m sure the time is fast approaching when we will be able to plug ourselves into an analytical device that will identify the optimum state for training.
BTW, Doug H, Thomas, other solo’s, any ideas re my post No. 32 ?